Larry Bird is VERY open to taking on added salary...Barbosa???

[jimmie]

What is this recent obsession with young average starter-quality player?

First, it was Wilson Chandler who is as average as can be at the starting small forward spot and now Darren Collison. Their historical performance are very consistent year after year and to me, this suggests they are basically finished products and won't likely improve significantly.

Collison may not even be "average"... ;-)

But yeah, I'm hoping all this underrating/overrating of players is just a factor of the mid-season balhs + trade deadline excitement and a desire to be involved. I'd be 100% happy if Colangelo did NOTHING at the deadline and stuck with what he has until the summer.

This team is being built to make the playoffs next year. This is not about developing 12 under-25 guys in the hopes that they all become keepers and the Raptors make the playoffs when they're all hitting the late-20s. Toronto will be a 6-8 seed next year or Colangelo will die trying. That's my opinion, anyway, and one shared by a lot of folks out there.

If that's the case, why would you trade ANYONE this year unless they are bringing back cap space or a talented player who will be here for the next 3-4 years in return? Collison will never make up for the loss of Calderon, and will eat cap. Chandler *might* be the latter, but he also might be no better than James Johnson. Is that worth not only giving up a top-tier game manager in Calderon (which is *exactly* what this team will need next year and the year after as a younger PG develops into that role) but also locking up $30-40M in cap room for the next 4-5 years?

[Hugmenot]

What is this recent obsession with young average starter-quality player?

First, it was Wilson Chandler who is as average as can be at the starting small forward spot and now Darren Collison. Their historical performance are very consistent year after year and to me, this suggests they are basically finished products and won't likely improve significantly.

[hateslosing]

I agree, but remember this is also a salary dump in the hopes of signing Wilson Chandler. So it would be more like: Calderon for Collison, a pick and Chandler, which to me, is a great deal.

However, since it seems likely that Denver will re-sign Chandler, I wouldn't do this deal with Indiana unless I was certain Toronto could get Chandler.

If that scenario took place, that would be great. I think Chandler is staying where he is at though so I wouldn't do it.

You totally completely changed my mind about trading him. I've always loved his game and used him as a valuable trade guy, now I think it would be best to keep him. Problem is his contract hurts us for the future, when we draft, sign, trade for better players.

My thing with Jose is I think he may take less money on his next contract. He only has a year left on his current deal and the only reason we'd need his contract off the books is if we wanted to make more than one big signing or if we were going to pay someone the max. So I say keep him at least another season, let him continue to provide great leadership and passing and hopefully we can resign him for about 8 per year after next season. At worst, he simply walks next year and opens up cap room, which isn't that bad of a situation for us since it doesn't sound like he would bring that anything back that we couldn't just get off of the free agent market. At best he resigns for less and continues to perform at the level he has been for the next decade, leading us to multiple titles .

[ReubenJRD]

You guys are crazy, Calderon is among the best pick and roll guys in the game and I would argue that he is currently the best after Nash and maybe Paul. He only has a year left on his contract. You want to move him for Collison and a second? I might take Collison and a first but come on, the guy only gets 5 assists a game on a team that is way better than the Raps.
This team needs a great set up guy to succeed: Jose is that guy. Everyone wants to get an all star point but they forget that when this team was in the playoffs and had Bosh, Jose was basically on that level and was snubbed. We put the right guys around him, and Jose will lead us to a title, he is that good.

You totally completely changed my mind about trading him. I've always loved his game and used him as a valuable trade guy, now I think it would be best to keep him. Problem is his contract hurts us for the future, when we draft, sign, trade for better players.

[10 000 Hours]

You guys are crazy, Calderon is among the best pick and roll guys in the game and I would argue that he is currently the best after Nash and maybe Paul. He only has a year left on his contract. You want to move him for Collison and a second? I might take Collison and a first but come on, the guy only gets 5 assists a game on a team that is way better than the Raps.
This team needs a great set up guy to succeed: Jose is that guy. Everyone wants to get an all star point but they forget that when this team was in the playoffs and had Bosh, Jose was basically on that level and was snubbed. We put the right guys around him, and Jose will lead us to a title, he is that good.

I agree, but remember this is also a salary dump in the hopes of signing Wilson Chandler. So it would be more like: Calderon for Collison, a pick and Chandler, which to me, is a great deal.

However, since it seems likely that Denver will re-sign Chandler, I wouldn't do this deal with Indiana unless I was certain Toronto could get Chandler.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

You guys are crazy, Calderon is among the best pick and roll guys in the game and I would argue that he is currently the best after Nash and maybe Paul. He only has a year left on his contract. You want to move him for Collison and a second? I might take Collison and a first but come on, the guy only gets 5 assists a game on a team that is way better than the Raps.
This team needs a great set up guy to succeed: Jose is that guy. Everyone wants to get an all star point but they forget that when this team was in the playoffs and had Bosh, Jose was basically on that level and was snubbed. We put the right guys around him, and Jose will lead us to a title, he is that good.

I agree. With how well Calderon is playing right now, coupled with his on-court leadership and calming influence, I wouldn't deal him for anything less than a 1st round pick or a proven young player. For me, as much as I was hoping for the Raps to get Collison last season, I would be disappointed getting him and a 2nd round pick for Calderon.

[hateslosing]

You guys are crazy, Calderon is among the best pick and roll guys in the game and I would argue that he is currently the best after Nash and maybe Paul. He only has a year left on his contract. You want to move him for Collison and a second? I might take Collison and a first but come on, the guy only gets 5 assists a game on a team that is way better than the Raps.
This team needs a great set up guy to succeed: Jose is that guy. Everyone wants to get an all star point but they forget that when this team was in the playoffs and had Bosh, Jose was basically on that level and was snubbed. We put the right guys around him, and Jose will lead us to a title, he is that good.

[Bendit]

Collison is taller than CP3 and Lawson. Same height as Rondo.

Much lighter than Lawson and just a touch lighter than CP3 and Rondo.

NBA.com lists Rondo as 26 lbs heavier & Paul as 15 more that Collison. That kind of weight diff. and more so if its muscle weight I think makes a difference going inside/posting. And of course we also have the skill set differences....and I also remember well how he played when CP3 was out so I am surprised he hasnt shown better in Indy. Of course if he had we wouldnt be discussing him now :-)

[Prime]

You guys are going to be very dissappointed with Collision. To start with, how does an NBA-caliber point guard average only 5 APG in a simple PnR offense such as the Pacers? Oh, and he also has the added luxury of playing with sharpshooting Paul George and Danny Granger.

[NoPropsneeded]

I would like collison on the raps but idk if the Pacers would do it

[mcHAPPY]

To be honest I am not sold on Collison for the long term. He is relatively small & light (like a TJ). All the top guards in the league are taller & heavier. He gets physically handled fairly often to have to give up the ball or turn it over when I have seen Indy's games.

Collison is taller than CP3 and Lawson. Same height as Rondo.

Much lighter than Lawson and just a touch lighter than CP3 and Rondo.

[Bendit]

To be honest I am not sold on Collison for the long term. He is relatively small & light (like a TJ). All the top guards in the league are taller & heavier. He gets physically handled fairly often to have to give up the ball or turn it over when I have seen Indy's games.

[Maleko]

My only thinking is that they wouldn't take Barbosa because they already have George Hill. Amir is interesting though.

And yet they are very interested in Eric Gordon. Trading for Barbosa maintains their cap flexibility to go for Gordan, an Indy native, in the summer, while bolstering the wing in a strong season this year.

[Soft Euro]

People who think Calderon is a liability on defense and want to trade him for Collison might become seriously dissapointed.

[Mediumcore]

Is Collison a better PG than Calderon? Younger and more athletic, but not as good a shooter, or passer. I don't know if he is enough of an upgrade to warrant making that trade. Calderon can play at the level he's playing at for another 2 - 3 years before a significant drop off which is better production than what Collison can give you.