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Bargnani coming back, good or bad for draft position?

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  • Bargnani coming back, good or bad for draft position?

    Andrea should be close to getting back on the court with his fellow Ratpors and it got me thinking. Right now players seem to be finding a groove and have settle into a role. Will Andrea coming back help the team win more games, loose more as the team readjusts, or will they just stay the same?

    EDIT: I was going to make this a pole, but I really did not know how to add one.
    Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

  • #2
    I'm thinking there is a 2-3 game adjustment period, but in the end, the Raptors start winning at a better pace.

    It's a tough situation. On the one hand, we need confirmation that Bargnani's previous 13 games were for real. On the other hand, we need to be conscious of losing draft position.

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    • #3
      How to create a poll:

      http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/fa...#faq_vb3_polls

      Comment


      • #4
        Current standings:

        TEAM W L PCT
        New York 18 21 0.462
        Phoenix 17 21 0.447
        Golden State 15 21 0.417
        Milwaukee 15 24 0.385
        Cleveland 14 23 0.378
        Toronto 13 26 0.333
        Detroit 13 26 0.333
        Sacramento 13 26 0.333
        New Jersey 13 27 0.325
        Washington 9 29 0.237
        New Orleans 9 30 0.231
        Charlotte 5 32 0.135


        With or without Bargnani (and who knows what potential moves could happen to alter the team even more), I expect the Raps to finish bottom-5 in the league. My prediction for bottom 5 (in no order): Charlotte, New Orleans, Washington, Toronto, Clevelend

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        • #5
          Gotta feel bad for Amir with Andrea coming back. He was starting to play well at the PF position, but will now have to either go back to the bench or start at Centre where he's been struggling this season. Clearly Bargnani's return is good for the team, but bad for our draft position.

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          • #6
            People are too worried about draft position. If we were a legit shot to get in the top three I'd be all for tanking, but teams like the Bobcats, Hornets, and Wizards are just too bad. The talent level from 4 to 10 is all very solid. NBAdraft.net has Sullinger at 10 and draft express has him at 5.

            Basically after Davis, Drummand, and Barnes (for me anyway) it's all about the same in the lottery.

            Bargs will come in, we'll lose a game or two while he acclimates and gets reintegrated then we'll go 500 for the rest of the year. Actually, given that we are 5 games behind New York for a playoff spot it's not impossible we'll find ourselves in a race. The team has gotten much better since the all-star break and if Andrea comes in at his early season level and get's integrated quickly, this team could go on a winning streak. There are something like 27 games left, if Cleveland, New York, and Milwakee were to all have some trouble and we went on a winning streak we could slide into 8th. It's extremely unlikely, but given how well we have played since the break there is a possibility that Andrea could push us to that low seed level.

            Bright side
            "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

            -Churchill

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            • #7
              hateslosing wrote: View Post
              People are too worried about draft position. If we were a legit shot to get in the top three I'd be all for tanking, but teams like the Bobcats, Hornets, and Wizards are just too bad. The talent level from 4 to 10 is all very solid. NBAdraft.net has Sullinger at 10 and draft express has him at 5.

              Basically after Davis, Drummand, and Barnes (for me anyway) it's all about the same in the lottery.

              Bargs will come in, we'll lose a game or two while he acclimates and gets reintegrated then we'll go 500 for the rest of the year. Actually, given that we are 5 games behind New York for a playoff spot it's not impossible we'll find ourselves in a race. The team has gotten much better since the all-star break and if Andrea comes in at his early season level and get's integrated quickly, this team could go on a winning streak. There are something like 27 games left, if Cleveland, New York, and Milwakee were to all have some trouble and we went on a winning streak we could slide into 8th. It's extremely unlikely, but given how well we have played since the break there is a possibility that Andrea could push us to that low seed level.

              Bright side
              Really good points. I believe that if our draft position is higher than the 5, it may be a trade piece, because MKG, Harrison Barnes, Davis, Drummond are long gone, IMO. I don't see us taking a shooting guard with Demar Derozan there. All in all, who knows, if we can reach that low spot, hey, let's get a winning culture early.

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              • #8
                We're going to end up with a pick in the 12-14 range :/
                @sweatpantsjer

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                • #9
                  WJF wrote: View Post
                  Andrea should be close to getting back on the court with his fellow Ratpors and it got me thinking. Right now players seem to be finding a groove and have settle into a role. Will Andrea coming back help the team win more games, loose more as the team readjusts, or will they just stay the same?

                  EDIT: I was going to make this a pole, but I really did not know how to add one.

                  Its bad we are headed for the worst possible place 9th aaaarrrrgggg!!!

                  "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The more I think about it, the less I care about a top 5 pick. I like what the Cavs are doing this year, I think winning games is more important to the development of young guys than anything.
                    We'll see how the Raptors are with Bargnani, still probably not good enough to get outside the top 10 in the draft, where there are PLENTY of top prospects to be had in the 5 to 10 range!
                    I'd much rather see some steady improvement and W's the rest of the way than a 5th overall pick in the draft

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                    • #11
                      RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                      Really good points. I believe that if our draft position is higher than the 5, it may be a trade piece, because MKG, Harrison Barnes, Davis, Drummond are long gone, IMO. I don't see us taking a shooting guard with Demar Derozan there. All in all, who knows, if we can reach that low spot, hey, let's get a winning culture early.
                      Yes, making the playoffs spots in 2007 really established a winning culture. Look at the success that "winning culture" has had in Toronto. Sorry, nothing personal, but this whole winning culture stuff is nonsense. The core group that is here now is nowhere near good enough - "winning culture" or not. Honestly, this team reminds me of the Bucks a couple of years ago. Look at where they are now.

                      What gives me some hope is that they would likely need to go something like 20-7 or 19-8 to get into the playoffs, which isn't going to happen with this group. So, a lottery pick is going to be there. Hopefully, everyone declares and someone really good falls or the Raps get lucky with the ping pong balls and move up. Stupid team can't even tank properly.

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                      • #12
                        slaw wrote: View Post
                        Yes, making the playoffs spots in 2007 really established a winning culture. Look at the success that "winning culture" has had in Toronto. Sorry, nothing personal, but this whole winning culture stuff is nonsense. The core group that is here now is nowhere near good enough - "winning culture" or not. Honestly, this team reminds me of the Bucks a couple of years ago. Look at where they are now.

                        What gives me some hope is that they would likely need to go something like 20-7 or 19-8 to get into the playoffs, which isn't going to happen with this group. So, a lottery pick is going to be there. Hopefully, everyone declares and someone really good falls or the Raps get lucky with the ping pong balls and move up. Stupid team can't even tank properly.
                        Well they made the playoffs in 2007-2008. Look what moves they made to get out of it? The 08-09 year is the year that basically killed us....

                        Sure, this team isn't good enough now, doesn't mean they aren't going to improve.... Trying to win games and be competitive is much better than losing games on purpose. In this team's situation anyways. We have Valanciunas coming next year, who was a top prospect last draft will be a NBA ready game and will contribute right away. IMO, win as many games as you can and build a
                        team that will get used to trying to be competitive every game, and develop a chemistry.

                        I don't expect this team to make the playoffs, but it would be good for this team to end off the season on a positive note and carry their winning positives into a season where they are expected to "hit the ground running."

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                        • #13
                          I personally don't think winning or losing "cultures" are permanently entrenched in players' minds from one season to the next. I mean, look at the way this team competes this year compared to last year....it's night and day.

                          Or look at the Clippers over the past 30 years compared to this season.

                          Or look at the TWolves this season.

                          If the Raptors lose a lot of games, and end up with a top 3 pick this year, I highly doubt that will have any effect on the players' psyche going into next season. There will still be a ton of internal optimism this summer, and everyone associated with the team will have their sights [realistically] set on the post-season.

                          Players aren't robots. They're perfectly capable of mentally separating one season from the next.

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                          • #14
                            RaptorReuben wrote: View Post

                            I don't expect this team to make the playoffs, but it would be good for this team to end off the season on a positive note and carry their winning positives into a season where they are expected to "hit the ground running."
                            Guess it depends what the goal is. If the goal is to have a team for next year (and the next 3) that is good enough to fight for the 6-8 seed then we should be all for adding vets to the current roster to put this team into that position. Maybe you capture lightning in a bottle one year and find yourself in the second round. If the goal is to turn this into a top 4 team in the Conference with a shot at the ECF for 3-4 years running, then management needs to be patient and build up the skill level of this team through the draft and by bringing in high-ceiling younger players.

                            Maybe I am underestimating the talent on this roster but I just see this team as being miles and miles miles away from being an ECF contender. I'm in no hurry to make the playoffs as an 8th seed if, by doing so, you sacrifice the future (i.e. 2006 offseason).

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                            • #15
                              RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                              Well they made the playoffs in 2007-2008. Look what moves they made to get out of it? The 08-09 year is the year that basically killed us....

                              Sure, this team isn't good enough now, doesn't mean they aren't going to improve.... Trying to win games and be competitive is much better than losing games on purpose. In this team's situation anyways. We have Valanciunas coming next year, who was a top prospect last draft will be a NBA ready game and will contribute right away. IMO, win as many games as you can and build a
                              team that will get used to trying to be competitive every game, and develop a chemistry.

                              I don't expect this team to make the playoffs, but it would be good for this team to end off the season on a positive note and carry their winning positives into a season where they are expected to "hit the ground running."
                              The one part about the whole "build a winning culture" and "develop a chemistry" argument that baffles me, is that probably half the current roster won't be on the Raptors team next year and even fewer are likely part of the long-term core.

                              This year the team sucks and is not going to win the Championship. So, once that fact has sunk in, it's time to look ahead to next season and beyond. Making sure our 1st round draft pick is the highest possible and returns the best possible player to fit on next year's team and become part of the future long-term core, should be the highest priority. I don't care if you call it "tanking" or "smart" or "strategic planning" or "reality", but with winning the championship out of grasp this year, making next year's team the best team possible is (or should be) the primary goal, plain and simple.

                              ALMOST CERTAINLY GONE
                              - Carter
                              - Magloire
                              - Butler
                              - Alabi

                              POSSIBLY GONE
                              - Barbosa
                              - Bayless
                              - either Amir/Davis
                              - Gray

                              UNDER CONTRACT AND LIKELY STAYING
                              - Bargnani
                              - either Amir/Davis
                              - Kleiza
                              - J. Johnson
                              - DeRozan
                              - Forbes
                              - Calderon

                              NEW
                              - Valanciunas
                              - lottery pick

                              More than half the team will be new next season. How exactly does winning just enough games to miss the playoffs and get a draft pick in the 8-14 range benefit this team next year and beyond? How can you build team chemistry with more than 50% player turnover all but guaranteed? It can't.

                              Building the best possible team and winning games with the goal of creating a sustainable winning core group of talented players, while continually improving and advancing further into the playoffs is what builds team chemistry and morale. Ensuring the best possible draft pick next season is the first step from today onward.
                              Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Mar 8, 2012, 01:22 PM.

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