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Jerryd Bayless considers himself nothing but a PG

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  • #16
    SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    Listen, what I am saying is even this year while he has been riddled with injuries his per 36 min. numbers are roughly as follows:

    16 pts 5 ast 3 reb 0.8 stl 3 TO 3 PF

    The reality is that he does not deserve all the constant hate he gets on these forums.

    A healthy Bayless for an extended period of time who doesn't need to worry about his minutes could develop into a great player for us, similar to what happened with James Johnson. People forget that when Bayless came into the league he was highly touted in the draft, but has never really had a chance to play starters minutes for an extended period of time. When ever he has played starters minutes he has always been an explosive player. My thinking is: give the guy a chance.
    Stats can lie to you my friend. I am a fan of Jerryd Bayless' game. But, when he runs the offense, every second possession will be an isolation or screen and roll. He puts up good stats, can score, and he's fairly underrated at finding open players, but he doesn't make anyone better, and he doesn't make the best of decisions.

    I am all for giving him good time, but not to start over Jose because we all know who makes the team better, run the offense better, and who is better mentor.

    I do admit though he has the biggest balls on this team besides Jamaal Magloire. He has no fear, unlimited confidence, want to win, killer instinct. It's too bad his decisions on the court just don't add up. It is something you can learn over time, but at this moment, Jerryd has almost proved his reliability as the point guard.

    When you're a bench point guard, what you're supposed to do is bring energy, but controlled energy. That's why OKC really misses Eric Maynor, because when Westbrook got to out of hand (like Bayless does just as bad), Maynor came in, settled down, and ran the sets/system which would get the guys the ball, and score himself when needed be.

    Bayless does the complete opposite and just presses the action to often, and tries to make run-away plays, and that's why he is averaging 3 turnovers per game in per 36 mins. 5 assists and 3 turnovers? Doesn't that scare you just a little bit as a point guard?

    Trust me, I hated myself. I averaged 10 assists a game, but 3 turnovers a game. My coach was on my ass, and it's high school basketball. What makes you think NBA basketball let's you just have 3 turnovers and only help on 5 baskets. When you're the floor general. That's self-explanatory.

    D-Will is leading the league in turnovers, but he just has something Bayless doesn't. He makes his team better, and scores WHEN he's supposed too. He also assists at a high level.
    Last edited by ReubenJRD; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 12:53 AM.

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    • #17
      SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
      Lol I just finished defending Bayless on another post.

      All you have to do is look at how Bayless has performed when he has been given 30+ min. a game to realize he can give us 18 pts 5 ast and 3 reb a game, with good defense.

      I don't understand all the Bayless hating on these forums. This guy just needs a chance and he can explode. Someone just needs to give him free reign for a while and he could develop into a very good PG for us.

      I can see him being a 6th man also, but their is no reason why he cannot start as a PG in this league, and do very well.
      I agree I don't get why every body on this forum hates JB. I think if given the chance he could give us 15, 5, 5 with a decent Assist Turnover ratio. Since his been back from his injury his dished out 26 ast and coughed up 13 TO in limited minutes. On the season he has 68 Ast to 37 TO in 22 games 21.2 mins per game. Has only played 25+ minutes 8 times(so much for getting his chance this year)
      Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 12:59 AM.
      @Chr1st1anL

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      • #18
        Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        I agree I don't get why every body on this forum hates JB. I think if given the chance he could give us 15, 5, 5 with a decent Assist Turnover ratio. Since his been back from his injury his dished out 26 ast and coughed up 13 TO in limited minutes. On the season he has 68 Ast to 37 TO in 21.2 mins per game.
        Compare that 2. something to Jose's 4. something turnover/assist ratio. There is no doubt who is the starter and better player for this team. It's not a matter of how well can he do it, it's a matter how of well does he do it for the team. AND that's why Jose is starting, and that's why Bayless is the back-up with limited minutes. He's a scoring guard, shoot first pass second.

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        • #19
          Bayless can't do his proper job as a BACK-UP point guard, what makes you think he can do his job as a starter with more minutes? In limited time, you should be even more efficient and more controlled.

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          • #20
            RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
            Compare that 2. something to Jose's 4. something turnover/assist ratio. There is no doubt who is the starter and better player for this team. It's not a matter of how well can he do it, it's a matter how of well does he do it for the team. AND that's why Jose is starting, and that's why Bayless is the back-up with limited minutes. He's a scoring guard, shoot first pass second.
            How do we know that this team wouldn't succeed with a scoring point that place better D. If you haven't noticed there are only 3 soteams in the playoffs with a pass first PG(BOS,LAC,MAV). Only one of those teams are in the east. If player like Jeff Teague and Brandon Jennings can s be tarting PG than so can JB. You telling JB couldn't average 18.7Pts 5.5Ast 2.2TO .401 FG .335 3FG .796 FT(Brandon Jennings) in 35.5 minutes per game?
            @Chr1st1anL

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            • #21
              RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
              Bayless can't do his proper job as a BACK-UP point guard, what makes you think he can do his job as a starter with more minutes? In limited time, you should be even more efficient and more controlled.
              Really? That didn't seem to be the case for Jeremy Lin or Kyle Lowry
              @Chr1st1anL

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              • #22
                For me neither

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                • #23
                  Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                  How do we know that this team wouldn't succeed with a scoring point that place better D. If you haven't noticed there are only 3 soteams in the playoffs with a pass first PG(BOS,LAC,MAV). Only one of those teams are in the east. If player like Jeff Teague and Brandon Jennings can s be tarting PG than so can JB. You telling JB couldn't average 18.7Pts 5.5Ast 2.2TO .401 FG .335 3FG .796 FT(Brandon Jennings) in 35.5 minutes per game?
                  Because those guys didn't run isolation plays or pick and rolls every second possession, not allowing any freedom offensively for any of the other four players to get the ball to create themselves.

                  Brandon Jennings makes better decisions than JB does overall, same with Teague, I don't give a damn shit about Jb's individual stat-line, it's what his stat-line does to win games and help make the team better, when he turns the ball over half the time he assists baskets, that means he makes as many mistakes as positives, which isn't very high positives as you stated from stat-line. I don't care about the averages, a point guard is a team player and makes the decisions right DURING THE TIME for the team to win games. Whether it is 10 points, 5 assists or 20 points and 11 assists, as long as it helps the team win games. And as Bayless the point guard, it just doesn't look good. He can't run this team, and that's that.

                  No spacing, quick shots, turnovers, bad offensive possessions, late shots, just not good situations for a young team to be in. He can sure develop into a guy that can put up a nice stat-line and make better decisions over time, but look at how many teams gave up on him? That's already a warning that if Bayless could be their starting point guard, they would've kept him.

                  I've been arguing about him, I always defended him, but now it's time to look at it realistically. He's a shooting guard in a point guard's body. We've all seen it already, he's played better at the shooting guard, and everyone on this forum can attest to that.
                  Last edited by ReubenJRD; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 02:36 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                    Really? That didn't seem to be the case for Jeremy Lin or Kyle Lowry
                    Kyle Lowry was known to be one of the best back-up point guards in the league.

                    Lin NEVER got playing time. Who know he was as good?

                    Better arguments please.

                    I'm talking ABOUT A player that CANNOT do their job in a lesser role, should not be allowed to have a promotion at a position just because they have potential. He has to work for it, and he has enough time to show it. So far, he's proved unreliable as an NBA point-guard. Sure, he has the guts and intangibles, but the floor general has the best awareness, and makes the best decisions, and those are areas Bayless struggles in deeply.

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                    • #25
                      RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                      Kyle Lowry was known to be one of the best back-up point guards in the league.

                      Lin NEVER got playing time. Who know he was as good?

                      Better arguments please.

                      I'm talking ABOUT A player that CANNOT do their job in a lesser role, should not be allowed to have a promotion at a position just because they have potential. He has to work for it, and he has enough time to show it. So far, he's proved unreliable as an NBA point-guard. Sure, he has the guts and intangibles, but the floor general has the best awareness, and makes the best decisions, and those are areas Bayless struggles in deeply.
                      Kyle Lowry number as a back up are very a like to JB.
                      Lin did play last year. He was G-state's back up PG for most of the year.
                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • #26
                        People need to get off "numbers" and really watch the players impact on the game and on his team. I wont bother to make a case for Bayless either good or bad, I just ask that for those people who want him, or think of him, as a starter, please watch the next game very closely and give a true scouting report based on his play not his box score. I ask this because those that throw the numbers out are ripped by those talking about his impact on the floor. If you can support your claims with actual play it may make your argument better.

                        For the record Bayless = career back-up....possible a very good back-up.
                        Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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                        • #27
                          Getting Dragic in a trade for Bayless? Hah, after Houston got front row seats to watch Bayless fail at dealing with Goran's ball pressure ... and getting yanked ... I wish.

                          Bayless can not run an offense. He is offensively gifted in some ways: he can knock down 3's in his own streaky way, he can beat a man off the dribble - but doesn't know what the hell to do with it next ... often ends up leaving his feet, then trying to find a man ... or tries to finish, but his small 'raptor' arms aren't big enough to elude defenders.

                          For this team - that needs to get Bargnani, Demar, and others the ball in the starting unit, he will never be the answer.

                          Maybe he would be a good scoring guard off the bench, but our bench has Barbosa, Kleiza, Ed and others who need to be involved ... Bayless doesn't have the ability to do that (if he does, he hasn't shown it yet).

                          If Jose is going to start, we need a new face at backup PG who could eventually grow into the starting role - not JB.
                          The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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                          • #28
                            I'm gonna assume there's a 99.99993478% chance Bayless won't be back next year.

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                            • #29
                              In Bayless' case stats are not the clear indicator of his ability to be a PG. Yes some games he's on, and shoots the lights out. Most nights he forces his game, and doesn't stop.

                              How many times has a guy been on fire, like DeMar, Kleiza or Barbosa and then Bayless comes on the floor and doesn't feed them. It's the Bayless show!

                              I yell at my TV every game due to his poor basketball IQ.

                              I love when he dribbles around trying to get his own shot and then when he can't, and then he passes the ball off with limited seconds on the clock and other player has to chuck it up.

                              How much of his energy goes into trying to get his own shot? Probably about 80%. Numerous times a game he goes up for a lay-up realizes it's not there and throws a wild pass. Fundamentals, don't leave your feet then try to pass.

                              He is good for one pass. It's like has it in his mind "okay, I'm a point guard I have to pass the ball" , He passes the ball once, and as soon as the ball come back to him he takes the shot. "I'm good! I passed the ball that time and didn't run an isolation play for myself." He's a volume shooter, most of the time it doesn't work.

                              I've tried to like him. When he came from N.O. I was excited. I gave him a chance, and I'm just not impressed.

                              As for, "if he got more time he would be able to prove himself", we brought it up in the Alibi thread, the coaches know more than we do. There is a reason he is not starting, or playing more.
                              Last edited by saints91; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 10:53 AM.

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                              • #30
                                I`m on the fence about Bayless as a starting point guard but am sure he`s a worth while piece on a reasonable deal. The whole argument of pass first point guards is tough to argue with guys like Westbrook, Rose, CP3 (definitely in more of a scoring mode this year), D-Will (Same as CP3 with Brook being hurt), Curry and Jennings all playing extremely well. The only true pass first point guards in the league currently are Jason Kidd, Rondo and Nash with Rondo and Kidd unable to score the ball. Point of the brief breakdown is the position is evolving and more scoring is being down from it. I don`t care who scores the ball as long as its a quality shot and attacking the proper match up. Bayless not being pass first is the least of my worries its more the decision making. He needs more time to see if he can be productive with more minute and with the seasons goal a high draft pick why not see what the kid has. We know what Jose can offer so cut his minutes back and let Bayless play 30+ minutes a night with out looking over his shoulder. Worst case scenario he doesn't show enough to warrant a contract extension and he walks next year. Best case we could have an instant offensive punch off the bench to replace Barbosa or a long shot a starting caliber PG going forward. To me its simple low risk potential high reward!

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