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Jerryd Bayless considers himself nothing but a PG

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  • jimmie
    replied
    Aw, come on, man. This has been done to death.

    You know who else is as good as Bayless?

    Keyon Dooling (2m/year)
    Avery Bradley (1.5M)
    Alonzo Gee (.85M)
    Roddy Beaubois (2M)
    Corey Brewer (3M)
    Dorell Wright (3.5M)
    Will Bynum (3.4M)
    Courtney Lee (2.5M)
    Goran Dragic (2M)
    Darren Collison (1.5M)
    George Hill (2M)
    Eric Bledsoe (1.6M)
    Tony Allen (3M)
    Shaun Livingston (3.5M)
    Luke Ridnour (4M)
    Jordan Farmar (4M)
    Anthony Morrow (4M)
    Toney Douglas (1.5M)
    CJ Miles (3.7M)
    Jordan Crawford (1M)

    and that's just -some- of the guys who are playing as well or better than Bayless NOW, not mentioning any of the other young PG/SGs out there on rookie contracts.

    The point is, guys like Bayless are a dime a dozen, and you certainly don't have to pay more than $4M/year for one of them. Every year, there are 20-30 guys like Bayless, who have "potential" if only they got a shot. I'd rather Toronto didn't pay one of them that kind of money when there are easy alternatives out there.

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  • SuperRaptor
    replied
    saints91 wrote: View Post
    In Bayless' case stats are not the clear indicator of his ability to be a PG. Yes some games he's on, and shoots the lights out. Most nights he forces his game, and doesn't stop.

    How many times has a guy been on fire, like DeMar, Kleiza or Barbosa and then Bayless comes on the floor and doesn't feed them. It's the Bayless show!

    I yell at my TV every game due to his poor basketball IQ.

    I love when he dribbles around trying to get his own shot and then when he can't, and then he passes the ball off with limited seconds on the clock and other player has to chuck it up.

    How much of his energy goes into trying to get his own shot? Probably about 80%. Numerous times a game he goes up for a lay-up realizes it's not there and throws a wild pass. Fundamentals, don't leave your feet then try to pass.

    He is good for one pass. It's like has it in his mind "okay, I'm a point guard I have to pass the ball" , He passes the ball once, and as soon as the ball come back to him he takes the shot. "I'm good! I passed the ball that time and didn't run an isolation play for myself." He's a volume shooter, most of the time it doesn't work.

    I've tried to like him. When he came from N.O. I was excited. I gave him a chance, and I'm just not impressed.

    As for, "if he got more time he would be able to prove himself", we brought it up in the Alibi thread, the coaches know more than we do. There is a reason he is not starting, or playing more.
    If we are not going to go by stats ... then what are we going by? Opinions. Record? Our record is bad no matter who is our point guard lol. Their is no doubt that he turns it over more than Jose does, I will not dispute that, but his assist numbers are not that bad relative to other PGs in this league, and he can get to the line by breaking defenses down which is a rare ability. Given time to mature (since he is only 23) he can become very good at drawing defenses and kicking out. He is an explosive scorer their is no doubt about that, he has been injured all year, and still can put the ball in the basket. Casey has often come out and said "He is our best on-the-ball defender", he is a very physical defender. He brings a lot to the table.

    I'm not saying start him over Jose just yet, but what I am saying is that the constant bashing this guy gets from people on this forum is not justified. To be perfectly honest with you, if Jose was to get traded I would be completely happy with Bayless starting for me. Even before he got injured the 2nd time this year, the guy started putting up crazy numbers. There is no reason why we shouldnt be considering this guy as our "PG of the future".

    As for those that say "Brian Colangelo didnt extend him so he is going to be gone" I disagree. Why extend the guy when it is unsure someone is going to match his qualifying offer, especially when he is already on contract for a relatively cheap price. This guy does figure into the raptors plans for the future, maybe that is my opinion but I am sure I'm not the only one who has considered this.

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  • RAPresenting
    replied
    I`m on the fence about Bayless as a starting point guard but am sure he`s a worth while piece on a reasonable deal. The whole argument of pass first point guards is tough to argue with guys like Westbrook, Rose, CP3 (definitely in more of a scoring mode this year), D-Will (Same as CP3 with Brook being hurt), Curry and Jennings all playing extremely well. The only true pass first point guards in the league currently are Jason Kidd, Rondo and Nash with Rondo and Kidd unable to score the ball. Point of the brief breakdown is the position is evolving and more scoring is being down from it. I don`t care who scores the ball as long as its a quality shot and attacking the proper match up. Bayless not being pass first is the least of my worries its more the decision making. He needs more time to see if he can be productive with more minute and with the seasons goal a high draft pick why not see what the kid has. We know what Jose can offer so cut his minutes back and let Bayless play 30+ minutes a night with out looking over his shoulder. Worst case scenario he doesn't show enough to warrant a contract extension and he walks next year. Best case we could have an instant offensive punch off the bench to replace Barbosa or a long shot a starting caliber PG going forward. To me its simple low risk potential high reward!

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  • saints91
    replied
    In Bayless' case stats are not the clear indicator of his ability to be a PG. Yes some games he's on, and shoots the lights out. Most nights he forces his game, and doesn't stop.

    How many times has a guy been on fire, like DeMar, Kleiza or Barbosa and then Bayless comes on the floor and doesn't feed them. It's the Bayless show!

    I yell at my TV every game due to his poor basketball IQ.

    I love when he dribbles around trying to get his own shot and then when he can't, and then he passes the ball off with limited seconds on the clock and other player has to chuck it up.

    How much of his energy goes into trying to get his own shot? Probably about 80%. Numerous times a game he goes up for a lay-up realizes it's not there and throws a wild pass. Fundamentals, don't leave your feet then try to pass.

    He is good for one pass. It's like has it in his mind "okay, I'm a point guard I have to pass the ball" , He passes the ball once, and as soon as the ball come back to him he takes the shot. "I'm good! I passed the ball that time and didn't run an isolation play for myself." He's a volume shooter, most of the time it doesn't work.

    I've tried to like him. When he came from N.O. I was excited. I gave him a chance, and I'm just not impressed.

    As for, "if he got more time he would be able to prove himself", we brought it up in the Alibi thread, the coaches know more than we do. There is a reason he is not starting, or playing more.
    Last edited by saints91; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 10:53 AM.

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  • Nilanka
    replied
    I'm gonna assume there's a 99.99993478% chance Bayless won't be back next year.

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  • Papa Burgundy
    replied
    Getting Dragic in a trade for Bayless? Hah, after Houston got front row seats to watch Bayless fail at dealing with Goran's ball pressure ... and getting yanked ... I wish.

    Bayless can not run an offense. He is offensively gifted in some ways: he can knock down 3's in his own streaky way, he can beat a man off the dribble - but doesn't know what the hell to do with it next ... often ends up leaving his feet, then trying to find a man ... or tries to finish, but his small 'raptor' arms aren't big enough to elude defenders.

    For this team - that needs to get Bargnani, Demar, and others the ball in the starting unit, he will never be the answer.

    Maybe he would be a good scoring guard off the bench, but our bench has Barbosa, Kleiza, Ed and others who need to be involved ... Bayless doesn't have the ability to do that (if he does, he hasn't shown it yet).

    If Jose is going to start, we need a new face at backup PG who could eventually grow into the starting role - not JB.

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  • WJF
    replied
    People need to get off "numbers" and really watch the players impact on the game and on his team. I wont bother to make a case for Bayless either good or bad, I just ask that for those people who want him, or think of him, as a starter, please watch the next game very closely and give a true scouting report based on his play not his box score. I ask this because those that throw the numbers out are ripped by those talking about his impact on the floor. If you can support your claims with actual play it may make your argument better.

    For the record Bayless = career back-up....possible a very good back-up.

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  • Chr1s1anL
    replied
    RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Kyle Lowry was known to be one of the best back-up point guards in the league.

    Lin NEVER got playing time. Who know he was as good?

    Better arguments please.

    I'm talking ABOUT A player that CANNOT do their job in a lesser role, should not be allowed to have a promotion at a position just because they have potential. He has to work for it, and he has enough time to show it. So far, he's proved unreliable as an NBA point-guard. Sure, he has the guts and intangibles, but the floor general has the best awareness, and makes the best decisions, and those are areas Bayless struggles in deeply.
    Kyle Lowry number as a back up are very a like to JB.
    Lin did play last year. He was G-state's back up PG for most of the year.

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  • ReubenJRD
    replied
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Really? That didn't seem to be the case for Jeremy Lin or Kyle Lowry
    Kyle Lowry was known to be one of the best back-up point guards in the league.

    Lin NEVER got playing time. Who know he was as good?

    Better arguments please.

    I'm talking ABOUT A player that CANNOT do their job in a lesser role, should not be allowed to have a promotion at a position just because they have potential. He has to work for it, and he has enough time to show it. So far, he's proved unreliable as an NBA point-guard. Sure, he has the guts and intangibles, but the floor general has the best awareness, and makes the best decisions, and those are areas Bayless struggles in deeply.

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  • ReubenJRD
    replied
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    How do we know that this team wouldn't succeed with a scoring point that place better D. If you haven't noticed there are only 3 soteams in the playoffs with a pass first PG(BOS,LAC,MAV). Only one of those teams are in the east. If player like Jeff Teague and Brandon Jennings can s be tarting PG than so can JB. You telling JB couldn't average 18.7Pts 5.5Ast 2.2TO .401 FG .335 3FG .796 FT(Brandon Jennings) in 35.5 minutes per game?
    Because those guys didn't run isolation plays or pick and rolls every second possession, not allowing any freedom offensively for any of the other four players to get the ball to create themselves.

    Brandon Jennings makes better decisions than JB does overall, same with Teague, I don't give a damn shit about Jb's individual stat-line, it's what his stat-line does to win games and help make the team better, when he turns the ball over half the time he assists baskets, that means he makes as many mistakes as positives, which isn't very high positives as you stated from stat-line. I don't care about the averages, a point guard is a team player and makes the decisions right DURING THE TIME for the team to win games. Whether it is 10 points, 5 assists or 20 points and 11 assists, as long as it helps the team win games. And as Bayless the point guard, it just doesn't look good. He can't run this team, and that's that.

    No spacing, quick shots, turnovers, bad offensive possessions, late shots, just not good situations for a young team to be in. He can sure develop into a guy that can put up a nice stat-line and make better decisions over time, but look at how many teams gave up on him? That's already a warning that if Bayless could be their starting point guard, they would've kept him.

    I've been arguing about him, I always defended him, but now it's time to look at it realistically. He's a shooting guard in a point guard's body. We've all seen it already, he's played better at the shooting guard, and everyone on this forum can attest to that.
    Last edited by ReubenJRD; Fri Mar 9, 2012, 02:36 AM.

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  • charlesnba23
    replied
    For me neither

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  • Chr1s1anL
    replied
    RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Bayless can't do his proper job as a BACK-UP point guard, what makes you think he can do his job as a starter with more minutes? In limited time, you should be even more efficient and more controlled.
    Really? That didn't seem to be the case for Jeremy Lin or Kyle Lowry

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  • Chr1s1anL
    replied
    RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Compare that 2. something to Jose's 4. something turnover/assist ratio. There is no doubt who is the starter and better player for this team. It's not a matter of how well can he do it, it's a matter how of well does he do it for the team. AND that's why Jose is starting, and that's why Bayless is the back-up with limited minutes. He's a scoring guard, shoot first pass second.
    How do we know that this team wouldn't succeed with a scoring point that place better D. If you haven't noticed there are only 3 soteams in the playoffs with a pass first PG(BOS,LAC,MAV). Only one of those teams are in the east. If player like Jeff Teague and Brandon Jennings can s be tarting PG than so can JB. You telling JB couldn't average 18.7Pts 5.5Ast 2.2TO .401 FG .335 3FG .796 FT(Brandon Jennings) in 35.5 minutes per game?

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  • ReubenJRD
    replied
    Bayless can't do his proper job as a BACK-UP point guard, what makes you think he can do his job as a starter with more minutes? In limited time, you should be even more efficient and more controlled.

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  • ReubenJRD
    replied
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I agree I don't get why every body on this forum hates JB. I think if given the chance he could give us 15, 5, 5 with a decent Assist Turnover ratio. Since his been back from his injury his dished out 26 ast and coughed up 13 TO in limited minutes. On the season he has 68 Ast to 37 TO in 21.2 mins per game.
    Compare that 2. something to Jose's 4. something turnover/assist ratio. There is no doubt who is the starter and better player for this team. It's not a matter of how well can he do it, it's a matter how of well does he do it for the team. AND that's why Jose is starting, and that's why Bayless is the back-up with limited minutes. He's a scoring guard, shoot first pass second.

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