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Jerryd Bayless considers himself nothing but a PG

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  • #46
    SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    The reality is that unless we are talking about stats all we are doing is giving our opinion/speculating. Show me the stats where his play as a SG is better than his play as a PG ... I respect the fact that you can stand by your opinion, I am just saying that whether or not he is a good player isn't as black and white as people on this forum would like to believe.

    Its not easy to argue against the majority, but I wouldn't do it unless I believed in it. I think Bayless will be a part of the raptors, he is a great back up PG, who should start on this team if their was no Jose Calderon.
    +1
    @Chr1st1anL

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    • #47
      SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
      The reality is that unless we are talking about stats all we are doing is giving our opinion/speculating. Show me the stats where his play as a SG is better than his play as a PG ... I respect the fact that you can stand by your opinion, I am just saying that whether or not he is a good player isn't as black and white as people on this forum would like to believe.

      Its not easy to argue against the majority, but I wouldn't do it unless I believed in it. I think Bayless will be a part of the raptors, he is a great back up PG, who should start on this team if their was no Jose Calderon.
      If Jose gets traded then we should start Forbes.

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      • #48
        SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
        The reality is that unless we are talking about stats all we are doing is giving our opinion/speculating. Show me the stats where his play as a SG is better than his play as a PG ... I respect the fact that you can stand by your opinion, I am just saying that whether or not he is a good player isn't as black and white as people on this forum would like to believe.

        Its not easy to argue against the majority, but I wouldn't do it unless I believed in it. I think Bayless will be a part of the raptors, he is a great back up PG, who should start on this team if their was no Jose Calderon.
        He is not a great back-up point guard. He is a good shooting-guard.

        I don't know how to look at the stats separately position wise, but if you've watched Raptor games, than don't ask this question.
        Last edited by ReubenJRD; Sat Mar 10, 2012, 04:39 AM.

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        • #49
          RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
          He is not a great back-up point guard. He is a good shooting-guard.

          I don't know how to look at the stats separately position wise, but if you've watched Raptor games, than don't ask this question.
          He means you can't make judgements on him being a starting PG since he hasn't gotten the opportunity. 10pts 4Ast 2Rebs .398 3Fg in 21.2 mins per game. That's pretty good for a back up PG.
          @Chr1st1anL

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          • #50
            Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
            He means you can't make judgements on him being a starting PG since he hasn't gotten the opportunity. 10pts 4Ast 2Rebs .398 3Fg in 21.2 mins per game. That's pretty good for a back up PG.
            Agreed.
            "Defense wins championships."

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            • #51
              Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              He means you can't make judgements on him being a starting PG since he hasn't gotten the opportunity. 10pts 4Ast 2Rebs .398 3Fg in 21.2 mins per game. That's pretty good for a back up PG.
              Bayless is a streaky scorer who can occassionally put up huge stats, but he's a terrible PG, if you define PG as a floor general who directs his team, gets them involved, feeds the hot hand and makes the team's offense greater than the sum of the parts. Baylesss doesn't do any of that. Most of the time he just plays 1 on 5, only looking for teammates if the shot clock is running out, he leaves his feet or he drives into the opposing bigs and can't get a shot off! He's an absolutely terrible PG, as far as being a distributor and facilitator are concerned.

              Bayless is a broke man's Monta Ellis. When you read the box scores and see the highlights, you think he's awesome! But then you watch him, like the game against the Raptors the other night, and you suddenly realize that he's playing the game all by himself, seemingly worries more about stats than actually winning the game. It's no surprise why GS are such a horrible team, despite Ellis' gaudy stats. And it's also no suprise that there aren't many takers for Ellis in a trade, because basketball people who watch him play realize he's a volume scorer who is an absolute black hole. He'll get his, but to hell with his teammates and the team's record... it the easiest road to a big payday! I wouldn't want the Raps to touch Ellis with a 10' pole, and Bayless plays like he aspires to be Ellis-lite... no thanks and definitely not an effective PG.

              I would be shocked if he's with the Raps next season, as there is no way he is worth $4M+.

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              • #52
                Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                He means you can't make judgements on him being a starting PG since he hasn't gotten the opportunity. 10pts 4Ast 2Rebs .398 3Fg in 21.2 mins per game. That's pretty good for a back up PG.
                Well I'm continuing to say. Why should he be better in more minutes when he can't do his job well and efficient enough when he is a backup point guard? Kyle Lowry was one of the best back-up point guards in the NBA, now he deserves to have that starting role because HE'S PROVED his reliability as a back-up point guard. Lin never played a game, don't start telling me he played in Golden State. He NEVER played. No one knew what he could, and New York was desperate. They had another Jerryd Bayless playing point guard (Toney Douglas). He averaged with Golden State 9.8 minutes per game in 29 games. He never had the opportunity to even come off the bench and play a back-up role, he's in a different situation than Jerryd Bayless.

                I'm going to keep saying as well, that stats lie to you. 10 points 4 assists and 2 rebounds. Dwane Casey, the NBA, everyone will look at how much are his stats helping? At this moment, you can say not much, because when he runs the point guard, every second possession is a call for an individual score himself, makes bad decisions, and is very selfish at times. He takes way too many jump-shots and has terrible finishing ability around the rim. He can't even take defensive pressure ***.
                AST Points
                Jan 31 vs. ATL L 77 - 100 26 4 - 11 2 - 5 4 - 4 0 0 0 2 1 0 1 0 14
                Jan 29 @ NJN W 94 - 73 34 7 - 15 0 - 4 3 - 4 0 6 6 3 1 0 1 4 17
                Jan 27 @ DEN L 81 - 96 16 7 - 10 4 - 5 0 - 0 0 2 2 3 0 0 2 3 18

                Those are his stats in the games from when he STARTED AT THE SHOOTING GUARD. Those are some damn nice stats, and hell he helped the team.

                I've been on other forums, and all they say is Jerryd Bayless is an undersized shooting guard, and he plays like one, his scoring mentality isn't of Brandon Jennings, and Derrick Rose. Because those guys make better decisions, are better creators, and they are pass and shoot first, which is they've got both mentalities of knowing they've got four other guys who can help the team.

                I remember what Jerryd Bayless did last year when Jose was out, he was solid, but no where near the point guard stature of numero' ocho Jose Calderon.

                Don't get me wrong here, I would like to see Bayless succeed, but his development is just too unreliable because from last year to this year, it doesn't look like anything has changed.

                Positives for me about Bayless is his confidence, good defense, and he can score the basketball. He's awesome at creating off the dribble, but for a point guard, you have to have those intangibles in order to start, and compete with the best in the business, unfortunately, Bayless just doesn't have those things, and on this team, unless the timing is right, he's not going to start.

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                • #53
                  Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                  He means you can't make judgements on him being a starting PG since he hasn't gotten the opportunity. 10pts 4Ast 2Rebs .398 3Fg in 21.2 mins per game. That's pretty good for a back up PG.
                  He's got plenty of oppurtunity to prove himself. He's just not a very good pg.

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                  • #54
                    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    Bayless is a streaky scorer who can occassionally put up huge stats, but he's a terrible PG, if you define PG as a floor general who directs his team, gets them involved, feeds the hot hand and makes the team's offense greater than the sum of the parts. Baylesss doesn't do any of that. Most of the time he just plays 1 on 5, only looking for teammates if the shot clock is running out, he leaves his feet or he drives into the opposing bigs and can't get a shot off! He's an absolutely terrible PG, as far as being a distributor and facilitator are concerned.

                    Bayless is a broke man's Monta Ellis. When you read the box scores and see the highlights, you think he's awesome! But then you watch him, like the game against the Raptors the other night, and you suddenly realize that he's playing the game all by himself, seemingly worries more about stats than actually winning the game. It's no surprise why GS are such a horrible team, despite Ellis' gaudy stats. And it's also no suprise that there aren't many takers for Ellis in a trade, because basketball people who watch him play realize he's a volume scorer who is an absolute black hole. He'll get his, but to hell with his teammates and the team's record... it the easiest road to a big payday! I wouldn't want the Raps to touch Ellis with a 10' pole, and Bayless plays like he aspires to be Ellis-lite... no thanks and definitely not an effective PG.

                    I would be shocked if he's with the Raps next season, as there is no way he is worth $4M+.
                    +1

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                    • #55
                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • #56
                        Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                        Just last week I was chatting with some other members of the media who cover the Raptors about how Toronto would limp through any games they were forced to play without Jose Calderon.

                        Sure, the lose of Andrea Bargnani was tough, but the reality is Calderon does such a great job running the offence that his loss would be a tough one to swallow for the Raptors.

                        Well, with the Spaniard limping through Toronto’s locker room prior to the game in a walking cast, it looked like the worst fears of Raptors fans were about to become a reality.

                        I guess Jerry Bayless didn’t get that memo.

                        Toronto raced out to a 14-8 lead thanks to the infusion of energy Bayless provided the starting five. Bayless went 2-3 from the field during that stretch while scoring four points while dishing out three assists and getting a steal in his first six minutes of burn.

                        Watching the game unfold it was easy to be impressed with Bayless in the first half. Toronto finished the first half shooting 54% from the field (24-44) and had an impressive 16 assists on 24 field goals which helped Toronto go into halftime with a 56-51 lead.

                        In the second half, however, they only had six assists as a team.

                        “The point I made about Jerryd (Bayless) is you need to make sure you see people as they are coming off the screen and they are ready to shoot,” Casey explained. “It’s timing. Andrea (Bargnani) is a little rusty coming off of screens, catching the ball, handling the ball. All of those things put together with Jerry in a new situation because usually he has the ball in an agitated situation where he is able to attack and pick-and-roll and kind of look for his with the second unit. With the first unit he has the job of getting everybody involved and that’s a new endeavour for him.”

                        Even though there was some noticeable growing pains, there was plenty of positives like his six assists and only one turnover.

                        Bayless also scored 16 points while hounding Jennings into one of his worst shooting games of the season.

                        “I thought Jerryd (Bayless) did a much better job or running the point guard position,” Casey raved. “It’s a difficult thing to get everybody else involved. His job, and his gift, is attacking the basket and scoring himself, but one thing he has got to learn to do himself – and he’s doing a better job of it – is involving other people, feeding Andrea (Bargnani) and seeing other guys on the roll. On one pick-and-roll he made a nice little pass to Amir (Johnson) who was rolling to the bucket. Those are the kinds of things we need to have out of him.”

                        While the loss was tough to swallow, the fact Bayless was able to run the offense while getting open looks for himself and his teammates had to be an encouraging thing for the coaching staff to see.

                        Plus, the team didn’t flatline with Calderon out of the line-up like many people predicted. That’s got to be worth something, right?
                        If you click on "Go Advanced" you get to set up quotations for articles. It makes it much easier to read and know what is your thoughts versus a reporter/columnist.

                        Also, any copy and pasted material should have a source to credit the author and allow others to view it as well.

                        Thanks.

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                        • #57
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          If you click on "Go Advanced" you get to set up quotations for articles. It makes it much easier to read and know what is your thoughts versus a reporter/columnist.

                          Also, any copy and pasted material should have a source to credit the author and allow others to view it as well.

                          Thanks.

                          http://www.hoopsaddict.com/bayless-g...ronto-a-boost/
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • #58
                            Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            Just last week I was chatting with some other members of the media who cover the Raptors about how Toronto would limp through any games they were forced to play without Jose Calderon.

                            Sure, the lose of Andrea Bargnani was tough, but the reality is Calderon does such a great job running the offence that his loss would be a tough one to swallow for the Raptors.

                            Well, with the Spaniard limping through Toronto’s locker room prior to the game in a walking cast, it looked like the worst fears of Raptors fans were about to become a reality.

                            I guess Jerry Bayless didn’t get that memo.

                            Toronto raced out to a 14-8 lead thanks to the infusion of energy Bayless provided the starting five. Bayless went 2-3 from the field during that stretch while scoring four points while dishing out three assists and getting a steal in his first six minutes of burn.

                            Watching the game unfold it was easy to be impressed with Bayless in the first half. Toronto finished the first half shooting 54% from the field (24-44) and had an impressive 16 assists on 24 field goals which helped Toronto go into halftime with a 56-51 lead.

                            In the second half, however, they only had six assists as a team.

                            “The point I made about Jerryd (Bayless) is you need to make sure you see people as they are coming off the screen and they are ready to shoot,” Casey explained. “It’s timing. Andrea (Bargnani) is a little rusty coming off of screens, catching the ball, handling the ball. All of those things put together with Jerry in a new situation because usually he has the ball in an agitated situation where he is able to attack and pick-and-roll and kind of look for his with the second unit. With the first unit he has the job of getting everybody involved and that’s a new endeavour for him.”

                            Even though there was some noticeable growing pains, there was plenty of positives like his six assists and only one turnover.

                            Bayless also scored 16 points while hounding Jennings into one of his worst shooting games of the season.

                            “I thought Jerryd (Bayless) did a much better job or running the point guard position,” Casey raved. “It’s a difficult thing to get everybody else involved. His job, and his gift, is attacking the basket and scoring himself, but one thing he has got to learn to do himself – and he’s doing a better job of it – is involving other people, feeding Andrea (Bargnani) and seeing other guys on the roll. On one pick-and-roll he made a nice little pass to Amir (Johnson) who was rolling to the bucket. Those are the kinds of things we need to have out of him.”

                            While the loss was tough to swallow, the fact Bayless was able to run the offense while getting open looks for himself and his teammates had to be an encouraging thing for the coaching staff to see.

                            Plus, the team didn’t flatline with Calderon out of the line-up like many people predicted. That’s got to be worth something, right?
                            It was ugly seeing the plays run, and added more scoring. He distributed the ball fair, and if he does it on a consistent basis, he should be alright while Jose is out. I just hope he doesn't think he is Derrick Rose.

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                            • #59
                              RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                              It was ugly seeing the plays run, and added more scoring. He distributed the ball fair, and if he does it on a consistent basis, he should be alright while Jose is out. I just hope he doesn't think he is Derrick Rose.
                              The fact that the offense wasn't running smoothly can't be all blamed on him. If you remember, it's not like we've been a juggernaut on offense this year. Andrea has ruined are offensive flow cause of how rusty he is. We still score 90+ and shot a good percentage as a team. Most if the time are offense runs more smoothly when we play better D. Last two games are D has been bad!
                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • #60
                                Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                                The fact that the offense wasn't running smoothly can't be all blamed on him. If you remember, it's not like we've been a juggernaut on offense this year. Andrea has ruined are offensive flow cause of how rusty he is. We still score 90+ and shot a good percentage as a team. Most if the time are offense runs more smoothly when we play better D. Last two games are D has been bad!
                                Don't be blaming Bargnani with the offense! He has made it run easier WHEN Jose is in! Our stats are better with Bargnani offensively and defensively. Our D has been fine! Even though sometimes it translates into what happens offensively, it's fine, the effort it always there. We just can't score, and get good shots, and that ALL falls upon the point guard. And that's to be expected from a guy coming back, they've done a fine job of scoring even when Bargnani hasn't. It's all in Bayless' hands to make the team run the offence smoothly, that's why they handle the ball the most, that's why they're the ones who call the plays other than the coach, that's why they call it a floor general. He's been given the "keys" to the team.

                                You need to understand what a point guard does. The offense must run at a smooth pace, where THE POINT GUARD will get the players the proper and easier shots. Even though the offense is not the best in the league, it's most definitely been ran better by Jose Calderon. He's already proved his reliability as a starting point guard, even though he plays very good defense, and can score, it's his decision making and how he runs the team is very very poor. Terrible court awareness, can't see all the players on the court, it's just not good.

                                I'm sorry to tell you, but Bayless has already proved he is an unreliable point guard, even though he puts up solid stats, those come in garbage time, and all of his shots are 21-ft jumpers off of screens.

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