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Forgive me but trading Jose just became a bigger concern (Ricky Rubio ACL)

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  • #31
    Good job, you jinxed him.

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    • #32
      Soft Euro wrote: View Post
      Did the Raptors have an understanding with the Spanish team?

      Even easier would be (ignoring Calderon's injury tonight for the moment - till we know exactly what's up) to (have) manage(d) his playing time this season with the Raptors; it's an incredible 66 games in an unhealthy short period of time where we are playing for nothing. With Spain he will be playing for something.

      The understanding was the Raptors did not want Garbo to play and the Spanish team did not care what the Raptors wanted. From what I recall, the Spanish doctors said he was fit to play.

      With Spain he'll be playing for something? Exactly. I don't give a damn about Spain. I am a Raptor fan. I want him working on his core strength and stabilizers. I want him focusing on his flexibility. I want him to take 4 months off from the rigours of playing basketball at the highest level possible. He has not done that in the past. He is not committed to that in the future. Trade him.


      Calderon's injury tonight was a freak accident. He stepped on a foot. It has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Those are the type of injuries that can happen at anytime, to anyone - regardless of history.

      Pulled hamstrings, strained hip flexors, bad feet - those are my concern after a summer of national team ball and then heading in to a full NBA season.

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      • #33
        Matt52 wrote: View Post
        The understanding was the Raptors did not want Garbo to play and the Spanish team did not care what the Raptors wanted. From what I recall, the Spanish doctors said he was fit to play.

        With Spain he'll be playing for something? Exactly. I don't give a damn about Spain. I am a Raptor fan. I want him working on his core strength and stabilizers. I want him focusing on his flexibility. I want him to take 4 months off from the rigours of playing basketball at the highest level possible. He has not done that in the past. He is not committed to that in the future. Trade him.
        Well, they don't have to do what the Raptors want, they won't care about the Raptors. I'd imagine they'd care about the health of Garbo and Calderon. I don't know enough details about Garbo's injury to have an informed opinion about it, but I can understand a player wanting to play for his country, especially when they have a shot at one of the top places.

        Agreed on tonight's injury. I do think the NBA schedule is gruelling (and this year especially). 82 games... (and playoffs) that asks a lot from player's bodies; there is no reason but money to play that many games.

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        • #34
          Soft Euro wrote: View Post
          Well, they don't have to do what the Raptors want, they won't care about the Raptors. I'd imagine they'd care about the health of Garbo and Calderon. I don't know enough details about Garbo's injury to have an informed opinion about it, but I can understand a player wanting to play for his country, especially when they have a shot at one of the top places.

          Agreed on tonight's injury. I do think the NBA schedule is gruelling (and this year especially). 82 games... (and playoffs) that asks a lot from player's bodies; there is no reason but money to play that many games.
          Exactly. Yet the Raptors, through their fans and sponsors, pay the player, in this case Jose, $10.5M next season in a year where the Raptors have made it very clear they intend to compete. No more rebuilding after this year - hit the ground running.

          Trade Jose.

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          • #35
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Exactly. Yet the Raptors, through their fans and sponsors, pay the player, in this case Jose, $10.5M next season in a year where the Raptors have made it very clear they intend to compete. No more rebuilding after this year - hit the ground running.

            Trade Jose.
            We will have that problem with Valanciunas as well (more than with Bargnani as Italy doesn't always qualify for the tournaments and/or doesn't get very far in the tournament - so far at least); this year it was quite visible at the beginning of the season that Valanciunas played a lot over the summer. He already is the face of Lithuanian basketball and I assume he'll continue to play for the national team for a long time to come. And we will see the effects of it when/if he stays here for years. Do we need to trade him?

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            • #36
              Soft Euro wrote: View Post
              We will have that problem with Valanciunas as well (more than with Bargnani as Italy doesn't always qualify for the tournaments and/or doesn't get very far in the tournament - so far at least); this year it was quite visible at the beginning of the season that Valanciunas played a lot over the summer. He already is the face of Lithuanian basketball and I assume he'll continue to play for the national team for a long time to come. And we will see the effects of it when/if he stays here for years. Do we need to trade him?
              When JV reaches 30 years of age and shows his body is unable to withstand the rigours of an NBA season and international competition in the summer, then, quite possibly, yes.

              JV is 19.

              Jose will be 31 come training camp.

              Huge difference in situation.

              Unless a chronic injury occurs it is a non-issue for 9-10 years.

              I also have no issue with Kleiza, Forbes, Barbosa, or Bargnani playing.

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              • #37
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                When JV reaches 30 years of age and shows his body is unable to withstand the rigours of an NBA season and international competition in the summer, then, quite possibly, yes.

                JV is 19.

                Jose will be 31 come training camp.

                Huge difference in situation.

                Unless a chronic injury occurs it is a non-issue for 9-10 years.

                I also have no issue with Kleiza, Forbes, Barbosa, or Bargnani playing.
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                When JV reaches 30 years of age and shows his body is unable to withstand the rigours of an NBA season and international competition in the summer, then, quite possibly, yes.

                JV is 19.

                Jose will be 31 come training camp.

                Huge difference in situation.

                Unless a chronic injury occurs it is a non-issue for 9-10 years.

                I also have no issue with Kleiza, Forbes, Barbosa, or Bargnani playing.
                I'm not so sure it's a non-issue untill he's 30. In football (soccer) playing on the national team gives clubs in Europe a lot of headaches, getting back players in their mid twenties who are tired or have with minor (sometimes major) injuries. This year it already effected Valanciunas; ok, he played in two international competitions, but that will happen this summer as well. We'll see... but I'm expecting quite a few future posts pleading for Valanciunas not to play on the national team which probably will happen anyway.

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                • #38
                  I'm going with Matt52 here. He's got good points and very worth considering...

                  Jose has shown nothing but the purest respect, professionalism, and loyalty to this team, unfortunately, it's not enough to keep him here.

                  Next year is a year where BC expects to hit the ground running, and I would love Jose to be our point guard for that, but unfortunately, the history has shown his injuries and the effects that come along with it.
                  Sure, he'll only miss 10 games, but in the rest of those 72 games, what percentage will he be at to perform night in and night out? 75%? Not enough, a 100% Jose is awesome, and very efficient, but lesser than that, we've seen it in the past few years.
                  It just doesn't work out well enough.

                  I think trading him would be the smartest or more sensible idea because of his history with injuries, and his age/contract etc. But I would love to see him retire a Raptor, but again, it comes down to the future run of this team, and I just don't see Jose there anyways.

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                  • #39
                    RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                    I'm going with Matt52 here. He's got good points and very worth considering...

                    Jose has shown nothing but the purest respect, professionalism, and loyalty to this team, unfortunately, it's not enough to keep him here.

                    Next year is a year where BC expects to hit the ground running, and I would love Jose to be our point guard for that, but unfortunately, the history has shown his injuries and the effects that come along with it.
                    Sure, he'll only miss 10 games, but in the rest of those 72 games, what percentage will he be at to perform night in and night out? 75%? Not enough, a 100% Jose is awesome, and very efficient, but lesser than that, we've seen it in the past few years.
                    It just doesn't work out well enough.

                    I think trading him would be the smartest or more sensible idea because of his history with injuries, and his age/contract etc. But I would love to see him retire a Raptor, but again, it comes down to the future run of this team, and I just don't see Jose there anyways.
                    Nailed it.

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                    • #40
                      i have been in the trade jose camp for a bit and i still think that if the deal to get younger or cheaper comes along you go for it. i also think that with jose on our roster we still have 10 million this summer and then with him expiring the year after we will have 10 million that year too.

                      with 20 million this year we could get nash and batum or chandler hypothetically. i still love chandler but would be happy with batum for those blocks he gives you coming from out of no where. i think a player at the 2 like that with jj and bigV up front would be sweet.

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                      • #41
                        Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                        i have been in the trade jose camp for a bit and i still think that if the deal to get younger or cheaper comes along you go for it. i also think that with jose on our roster we still have 10 million this summer and then with him expiring the year after we will have 10 million that year too.

                        with 20 million this year we could get nash and batum or chandler hypothetically. i still love chandler but would be happy with batum for those blocks he gives you coming from out of no where. i think a player at the 2 like that with jj and bigV up front would be sweet.
                        Yes and no.

                        If Jose is gone for this summer, the Raps have a little over $20M to spend.

                        If the Raptors wait until next summer, they have to extend DeMar and JJ. They will have to use the cap space created by Jose on them first - or renounce them and risk losing them for nothing as they become unrestricted free agents.

                        Hypothetically, lets say the Raptors sign, say, Steve Nash and Batum (or Batum and Chandler or whoever and whoever) this summer. Next summer, the Raptors have their Bird Rights to re-sign DeMar and JJ or sign-and-trade them without worrying about using their cap space to make a lateral move i.e. re-sign DeMar and JJ.

                        This is the summer to lock up any pieces that BC wants moving forward for the next 2-4 years.

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                        • #42
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          Yes and no.

                          If Jose is gone for this summer, the Raps have a little over $20M to spend.

                          If the Raptors wait until next summer, they have to extend DeMar and JJ. They will have to use the cap space created by Jose on them first - or renounce them and risk losing them for nothing as they become unrestricted free agents.

                          Hypothetically, lets say the Raptors sign, say, Steve Nash and Batum (or Batum and Chandler or whoever and whoever) this summer. Next summer, the Raptors have their Bird Rights to re-sign DeMar and JJ or sign-and-trade them without worrying about using their cap space to make a lateral move i.e. re-sign DeMar and JJ.

                          This is the summer to lock up any pieces that BC wants moving forward for the next 2-4 years.
                          then its decided we have 5 days to get jose off the books. the absolute best scenario for this team is to use the 20 million this year and go into the tax after that if possible.

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                          • #43
                            Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                            then its decided we have 5 days to get jose off the books. the absolute best scenario for this team is to use the 20 million this year and go into the tax after that if possible.
                            In my opinion, from a business perspective, you'd only go in to the tax if you were a contender - especially with the luxury tax becoming much more punitive after next season (this is why the Lakers and Mavs have donemany of the 'questionable' basketball moves they have done).

                            However there is a $12-13M buffer zone between the salary cap and the luxury tax that you can only tap in to with Bird Rights and exceptions.

                            If the Raptors are contenders in a few seasons, absolutely, luxury tax has to become an option.

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                            • #44
                              Hello wrote: View Post
                              NBA.com is reporting he is out for the season.

                              http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/0...ne-for-season/
                              There goes my fantasy team.

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                              • #45
                                how many teams never reach their full potential b/c they don't have a true playmaker on the team?

                                matt52, I feel like you're setting us up for mediocrity with your insistence on trading jose..........

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