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Forgive me but trading Jose just became a bigger concern (Ricky Rubio ACL)

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  • Nilanka
    replied
    tbihis wrote: View Post
    You said AND and not AND/OR so im guessing if one is still on the roster then your'e ok with it?
    Coz that just might be the case.
    Ideally, I want them both gone, but I could live with Barbosa sticking around. But the disappointment comes from the fact that he's not traded in the next 3 days for assets.

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  • Miekenstien
    replied
    Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    As I said earlier, I wouldn't be against creating capspace if we'd do something significant with it, like signing Batum, but we'd need at least a Sessions as well. I hate watching teams without (at least average) balldistributers.
    in my highest hopes this summer we come away with nash for 2 or 3 years and chandler/batum for the long hual. and a high hope that bc gets a good young pg to learn from nash for those 2 years before sending him to the glue farm.

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  • Soft Euro
    replied
    As I said earlier, I wouldn't be against creating capspace if we'd do something significant with it, like signing Batum, but we'd need at least a Sessions as well. I hate watching teams without (at least average) balldistributers.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i am not for trading to trade. i want to get younger or cheaper, i want that 10 million off the books by the summer this year before it blocks our ability to add players and is just used to extend our own players.

    Exactly.


    Injuries is a big part of the situation but hardly the only factor.


    In terms of this season, sometimes you need to take a step back to be able to move forward.


    If Jose's contract expires as a Raptor, the cap space created will be used mostly to retain the talent already under contract next summer - hardly moving forward unless JJ or DD take a gigantic step forward. Basically the Raptors would be putting all their eggs in the basket of current players developing - in my opinion that is a big risk considering neither is showing signs of greatness (solidness, but not greatness).

    Leave a comment:


  • Puffer
    replied
    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i am not for trading to trade. i want to get younger or cheaper, i want that 10 million off the books by the summer this year before it blocks our ability to add players and is just used to extend our own players.
    Fair enough. You want the cap flexibility. Period.

    Leave a comment:


  • Miekenstien
    replied
    Puffer wrote: View Post
    With those three statements about Jose you paint him as, at least, average, and in my opinion above average by NBA standards.

    I have no problem with trading Jose, but how do you improve the team unless you can get at least an average PG back who is 1. younger or 2. cheaper or 3. worse but comes with a significant upgrade for one of the other positions? And which GM will give you those options when good PG's are at a premium in the league?

    The only trades I can imagine being made are with other teams looking to upgrade their PG going into the playoffs. Are any of them going to give up scoring? Rebounding? Or ball handling/defensive abilities? I don't think so. They may give up picks. So the Raps wind up with late round picks who are going to be useful bench players and maybe some cap relief. And they can use the cap relief chasing a handful of free agents who won't come to TO unless they are over paid. How is this helping the team get better?

    Maybe I am just being obtuse but it hasn't been adequately explained to me. The only way I can see getting rid of Jose, who I believe is being paid fairly for what he brings, is if you are 75% sure he misses 35 + games next year because of injury, or plays at 80% for much of the season because he is playing hurt.

    Matt makes the strongest case for that, but I don't believe it is enough of a sure thing to lose what Jose brings, unless you can find a PG who can replace some of the floor leadership. We have had great examples of Bayless not being able to handle pressure and making bad decisions with the ball. No thanks.

    i am not for trading to trade. i want to get younger or cheaper, i want that 10 million off the books by the summer this year before it blocks our ability to add players and is just used to extend our own players.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    tbihis wrote: View Post
    But isnt the shortened season going to compensate for that, just a tiny, teenie bit? for the sake of argument? hehehe
    I'm not sure I understand what "that" is.

    But to reply as I interpreted, it is incredible what a professional basketball players body is capable of with proper off season training and rest. If Calderon quit playing international basketball, you would not hear a peep from me about trading him.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'd be disappointed if both Bayless and Barbosa are even on the roster next year.
    You said AND and not AND/OR so im guessing if one is still on the roster then your'e ok with it?
    Coz that just might be the case.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    ceez wrote: View Post
    Jose isn't getting traded, get used to it. BC wants cap flexibility and no team is goin to give up a pick in this draft and/or a young stud for him.

    Let's all get a pint of guiness and get over it.
    Im down.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Calderon, after a summer of international ball without a break, is prone to recurring OVERUSE injuries. I've never once said he had a specific chronic injury - and I'm pretty sure I've said the exact opposite.
    But isnt the shortened season going to compensate for that, just a tiny, teenie bit? for the sake of argument? hehehe
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Mon Mar 12, 2012, 05:47 PM.

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  • ceez
    replied
    Jose isn't getting traded, get used to it. BC wants cap flexibility and no team is goin to give up a pick in this draft and/or a young stud for him.

    Let's all get a pint of guiness and get over it.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    tbihis wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure if my research is accurate, i just went by the yahoo game logs, but in 2008, Calderon had an achilles injury, 2009 left hamstring and 2010 right hamstring. Im not sure if these are recurring injuries, but doesnt seem to have happened at the exact same body part.

    As Matt pointed out to me before, playing at FIBA doesnt just constitute the games they play in the tournament, but also including exhibition games, practices, etc. Given this, i think Calderon can still manage. Even if Rubio is not playing, Spain still has Navarro who logged heavier minutes than Calderon last year. Calderon will definitely see an increase in minutes with Rubio out, but who knows, they might get another PG and maybe Calderon will not take on Rubio's minutes.

    I might be echoing what others are saying, but i will not trade Calderon on the basis of potential injury. If they can get a pass-first PG in return, then thats fine. I believe what he brings to the table is far more worthy. None of his past injuries have been career threatening anyways. With a full training camp and regular practices in between games for next season, if ever he goes down for a couple of games, i would be comfortable having Bayless or Barbosa run the point, again, given the earlier circumstances ive metioned. When his contract is up, im confident he will consider signing with Toronto for less money and by that time, hopefully they've already found their PG of the future with Calderon as the main backup.
    Calderon, after a summer of international ball without a break, is prone to recurring OVERUSE injuries. I've never once said he had a specific chronic injury - and I'm pretty sure I've said the exact opposite.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    I'd be disappointed if both Bayless and Barbosa are even on the roster next year.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    I'm not sure if my research is accurate, i just went by the yahoo game logs, but in 2008, Calderon had an achilles injury, 2009 left hamstring and 2010 right hamstring. Im not sure if these are recurring injuries, but doesnt seem to have happened at the exact same body part.

    As Matt pointed out to me before, playing at FIBA doesnt just constitute the games they play in the tournament, but also including exhibition games, practices, etc. Given this, i think Calderon can still manage. Even if Rubio is not playing, Spain still has Navarro who logged heavier minutes than Calderon last year. Calderon will definitely see an increase in minutes with Rubio out, but who knows, they might get another PG and maybe Calderon will not take on Rubio's minutes.

    I might be echoing what others are saying, but i will not trade Calderon on the basis of potential injury. If they can get a pass-first PG in return, then thats fine. I believe what he brings to the table is far more worthy. None of his past injuries have been career threatening anyways. With a full training camp and regular practices in between games for next season, if ever he goes down for a couple of games, i would be comfortable having Bayless or Barbosa run the point, again, given the earlier circumstances ive metioned. When his contract is up, im confident he will consider signing with Toronto for less money and by that time, hopefully they've already found their PG of the future with Calderon as the main backup.

    Leave a comment:


  • Puffer
    replied
    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    ...he is a smart, able to run an offence, low mistake guy...
    With those three statements about Jose you paint him as, at least, average, and in my opinion above average by NBA standards.

    I have no problem with trading Jose, but how do you improve the team unless you can get at least an average PG back who is 1. younger or 2. cheaper or 3. worse but comes with a significant upgrade for one of the other positions? And which GM will give you those options when good PG's are at a premium in the league?

    The only trades I can imagine being made are with other teams looking to upgrade their PG going into the playoffs. Are any of them going to give up scoring? Rebounding? Or ball handling/defensive abilities? I don't think so. They may give up picks. So the Raps wind up with late round picks who are going to be useful bench players and maybe some cap relief. And they can use the cap relief chasing a handful of free agents who won't come to TO unless they are over paid. How is this helping the team get better?

    Maybe I am just being obtuse but it hasn't been adequately explained to me. The only way I can see getting rid of Jose, who I believe is being paid fairly for what he brings, is if you are 75% sure he misses 35 + games next year because of injury, or plays at 80% for much of the season because he is playing hurt.

    Matt makes the strongest case for that, but I don't believe it is enough of a sure thing to lose what Jose brings, unless you can find a PG who can replace some of the floor leadership. We have had great examples of Bayless not being able to handle pressure and making bad decisions with the ball. No thanks.

    Leave a comment:

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