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Lin to the Raptors a good idea? Lin Raptors Plan B? (168)

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  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    ebrian wrote: View Post
    I think it's easy to forget that this guy was cut by two teams. Do you know how much it takes to be released by a team? For God's sakes we still have friggin' Solomon Alabi on our roster! That should give you some idea. And now he's the starting PG for the Mecca of basketball, in the biggest city in North America.

    As a Raptors fan I wouldn't want to sign Lin to anything until we knew what type of player he's going to be. Do a quick Player Season Search on b-r.com and you'll see that there were a bunch of (now superstar) guards who averaged 3+ turnovers, 6+ assists while shooting 45%+. Dwyane Wade, Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Deron Willams -- to name a few. Extend it to non-active players and you have Tim Hardaway, Kenny Smith. If you sort them all together with PER, Lin is amongst the top 3. That's the ceiling, but the floor is waaaaaaay down. Remember Flip Murray? Similar situation of a guy who was largely forgotten, who bursted into the scene and was amazing.. for a couple of seasons. Another issue is that most of these guys named above were scouted all through college and what they became was at least closer to what people expect of them. Lin is pretty much coming out of nowhere.

    There's no way of knowing which direction Lin goes from here on out. Mike D'Antoni offenses have historically boosted players' stats. As long as you have a team catering to Carmelo Anthony's wishes, chances are you won't see as many 20/8 games from Lin. And then by the end of the season you're looking at a point guard with still a lot of weaknesses. I'm sure many remember Flip Murray who exploded into the season and then just tailed off. We don't know enough about Lin to sign him, and we have enough question marks on our team as it is.

    I'm sure other GMs are thinking the same way. Love to have him, but unsure of the future. Need more data.
    Very, very good comparison. Youre actually right, its pretty much the same situation with Flip Murray. And i too back then got hyped up when Flip burst into the scene.

    There are 2 differences tho, seattle was a bad team, i dont think they even made the playoffs that year. while nyk right now is on the verge of making the playoffs, which in some way shape or form, Lin's contributions actually mean something to the team. 2nd, Lin's is obviously more celebrated than Flip's. And factoring this in, the pressure for coaches to play Lin is far greater than the coaches on Flip before. Lin is an attraction now, and i think that could be a factor in how many minutes he gets too.

    Im not saying it would be awesome to have Lin as a Raptor, im just saying it wont be that bad. But reading the posts since my last post is actually convincing me otherwise.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    tbihis wrote: View Post
    No need. I was just pointing out the turnovers.
    Ok but that doesn't help validate his inability to protect the ball. If Lin was as dominate as Nash he wouldn't need to look over his should when he coughed the ball up but he's not Steve Nash or anything close to Steve Nash. Under Mike Woodson and seemingly any other coach he's met in the NBA who wasn't Mike D'Anotoni, he's needs to be greatly concerned by it.

    Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    I kinda disagree. Casey values his PG play and actually prefers to push the ball. Under the right tutelage, Lin reminds me of Calderon. Over time, his turnovers will be dealt with. His pick and roll play was very decent. There's too much ego with the Knicks that a quiet guy like JL would not thrive under. It's only a matter of time before he makes his way to the bench in favor of Davis. A real shame if you ask me. The Knicks were on a freaking roll before Melo came in and ruined the party. Is it an accident that Nash thrived under DA? Same goes for Lin. Yes, Casey is not an offensive juggernaut. He does however, value the role of his PGs. Just see how important Calderon is to the team. I think the other factor here is that Lin is coachable and wants to learn, watches tapes, etc. a sponge. That's good in my opinion. I would love to have him over Bayless any day.
    Casey doesn't run his offense like D'Antoni. A lot more goes into MDA's coaching then telling his PG to push the ball.

    Lin is nothing like Calderon. Calderon is the model for conservative, highly intelligent, highly efficient play.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balls of Steel
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Source: Newsday.com

    For all you people focused on Lin, watch some Knicks games down the stretch. You're going to see more of what you'd get if he were a Raptor from this point on. What he did under MDA would not happen in Toronto and if you think it would then please explain that to me in detail because last time I checked Casey wasn't an offensive mastermind running an offense more indicative of the European style of play.
    I kinda disagree. Casey values his PG play and actually prefers to push the ball. Under the right tutelage, Lin reminds me of Calderon. Over time, his turnovers will be dealt with. His pick and roll play was very decent. There's too much ego with the Knicks that a quiet guy like JL would not thrive under. It's only a matter of time before he makes his way to the bench in favor of Davis. A real shame if you ask me. The Knicks were on a freaking roll before Melo came in and ruined the party. Is it an accident that Nash thrived under DA? Same goes for Lin. Yes, Casey is not an offensive juggernaut. He does however, value the role of his PGs. Just see how important Calderon is to the team. I think the other factor here is that Lin is coachable and wants to learn, watches tapes, etc. a sponge. That's good in my opinion. I would love to have him over Bayless any day.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Do you really need me to explain the difference of Nash, Rondo, Bryant and Durant when compared to Jeremy Lin?
    No need. I was just pointing out the turnovers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    The party is over:

    You know that crazy three-point shot that Jeremy Lin made to beat the Raptors last month? Well, don't expect to see anything like that again now that Mike Woodson is the Knicks' interim coach.

    Lin, and the Knicks' other young players, stand to be the biggest losers in the transition from Mike D'Antoni's offense to Woodson's.
    "But I want everyone to know that when it comes to [crunch time] and I have to get a big shot, I'm going to go to Melo and Amar'e and guys who have done it. Not these guys who are young and are still trying to feel their way out."
    Lin, who became a starter Feb. 6 and flourished in D'Antoni's pick-and-roll, run-and-gun system, certainly will not play the same kind of starring role in Woodson's defensive-minded game. On Wednesday, Lin had six points and six assists -- among his lowest totals since he joined the rotation -- and six turnovers.
    "It will be a different style and a different system," Lin said. "We still have to figure it out, because we don't have it all figured out . . . I just have to be aggressive. But it's going to be different ways. Different ways to initiate offense. Different ways to score and create. It's definitely going to be a change."
    "I love D'Antoni's system,'' Lin said. "It was perfect for me. But I never had been in D'Antoni's system before this year. So it's like going back to what I was doing before and stuff like that."
    Source: Newsday.com

    For all you people focused on Lin, watch some Knicks games down the stretch. You're going to see more of what you'd get if he were a Raptor from this point on. What he did under MDA would not happen in Toronto and if you think it would then please explain that to me in detail because last time I checked Casey wasn't an offensive mastermind running an offense more indicative of the European style of play.

    Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Ah, the bubble has burst, courtesy of a douchebag named Carmelo. A team without a PG running the offense is difficult in the championship stages. You got a bunch one and dones in New York and the ball hogs the likes of Carmelo will ruin the Knicks. Time to donate those BalLin' shirts to Goodwill Spike! For the record, I love Lin and HATE Carmelo Anthony and all the Melo-type players in the league.

    Ps> Lin would do well in a Raps uniform because we don't have a douchbag player in the Raps locker room. BC has successfully assembled a humble team with a team-oriented coach in Casey. Woodson and his "Melo and Amare will be running the offense" philosophy. Hahahahaha. What a joke. You don't need to be a basketball genius to figure out how basketball is played. Is this the same coach that was tuned out by his team in the playoffs two years ago?
    Melo doesn't want to run the offense. He no doubt does expect his 20-25 shots per game though. Based on what I've read he expects those shots where he wants them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balls of Steel
    replied
    Ah, the bubble has burst, courtesy of a douchebag named Carmelo. A team without a PG running the offense is difficult in the championship stages. You got a bunch one and dones in New York and the ball hogs the likes of Carmelo will ruin the Knicks. Time to donate those BalLin' shirts to Goodwill Spike! For the record, I love Lin and HATE Carmelo Anthony and all the Melo-type players in the league.

    Ps> Lin would do well in a Raps uniform because we don't have a douchbag player in the Raps locker room. BC has successfully assembled a humble team with a team-oriented coach in Casey. Woodson and his "Melo and Amare will be running the offense" philosophy. Hahahahaha. What a joke. You don't need to be a basketball genius to figure out how basketball is played. Is this the same coach that was tuned out by his team in the playoffs two years ago?
    Last edited by Balls of Steel; Fri Mar 16, 2012, 10:54 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    tbihis wrote: View Post
    Dont forget Nash and Rondo. Oh and Westbrook and Durant. Oh and Kobe.
    All these guys are in the Top 20.
    Turnovers come with the territory.
    Do you really need me to explain the difference of Nash, Rondo, Bryant and Durant when compared to Jeremy Lin?

    Leave a comment:


  • Red and White
    replied
    No deal howie...no deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • ebrian
    replied
    I think it's easy to forget that this guy was cut by two teams. Do you know how much it takes to be released by a team? For God's sakes we still have friggin' Solomon Alabi on our roster! That should give you some idea. And now he's the starting PG for the Mecca of basketball, in the biggest city in North America.

    As a Raptors fan I wouldn't want to sign Lin to anything until we knew what type of player he's going to be. Do a quick Player Season Search on b-r.com and you'll see that there were a bunch of (now superstar) guards who averaged 3+ turnovers, 6+ assists while shooting 45%+. Dwyane Wade, Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Deron Willams -- to name a few. Extend it to non-active players and you have Tim Hardaway, Kenny Smith. If you sort them all together with PER, Lin is amongst the top 3. That's the ceiling, but the floor is waaaaaaay down. Remember Flip Murray? Similar situation of a guy who was largely forgotten, who bursted into the scene and was amazing.. for a couple of seasons. Another issue is that most of these guys named above were scouted all through college and what they became was at least closer to what people expect of them. Lin is pretty much coming out of nowhere.

    There's no way of knowing which direction Lin goes from here on out. Mike D'Antoni offenses have historically boosted players' stats. As long as you have a team catering to Carmelo Anthony's wishes, chances are you won't see as many 20/8 games from Lin. And then by the end of the season you're looking at a point guard with still a lot of weaknesses. I'm sure many remember Flip Murray who exploded into the season and then just tailed off. We don't know enough about Lin to sign him, and we have enough question marks on our team as it is.

    I'm sure other GMs are thinking the same way. Love to have him, but unsure of the future. Need more data.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    Prime wrote: View Post
    So what's your point?

    I see John Wall or DWill turning the ball over just as frequently as he does but Lin still gets all the flak? Remember whose team is actually leading in wins right now.
    Dont forget Nash and Rondo. Oh and Westbrook and Durant. Oh and Kobe.
    All these guys are in the Top 20.
    Turnovers come with the territory.

    Leave a comment:


  • ebrian
    replied
    Fanchie wrote: View Post
    That is not inappropriate : bottom line is Lin is the starting PG of a sub .500 team, averaging 14.7 pts and 6.3 assists and not ranked any higher than #24 in any individual stat category. If you take this into account, you can claim that he's a younger but less versatile version of Rodney Stuckey (I'm not comparing game style, I'm comparing talent).

    Would Stuckey have had a sneaker designed for him in 2 weeks ? Would Rookie game rules have been changed to make room for Stuckey ? How many Stuckey articles have you read in your life ? And how many have you seen your friends sharing on Facebook ?

    Lin deserves credit for helping the Knicks win several games in a row and winning that starter spot, no doubt about it. But THAT much credit ? To quote what Arse was saying and rephrase it, can you honestly claim that any player would have got that much coverage ? It is not about race as physical disparity, it is about being the only asian-american in the NBA : you have more chance to get noticed, especially in Asia where potential customers are counted in billions...

    Lin is good, but he's not worth $[insert the number of millions he'll get on his next contract, whatever it is]M.
    You sound incredibly jaded. This thread has nothing to do with Lin's popularity. At all. It has nothing to do with his shoes or coverage. The OP asked if Lin would be a good fit in Toronto. That's all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    If you're asking me if I want to waste my time then my answer is obvious. Talking about this year isn't a waste of time in my opinion. Anything else is in his circumstances.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prime
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Ah, then you have no stance what so ever to defend him. That sample size is all there is and if it's not enough to criticize him then it's not enough to endorse him.
    Well if you're content with arguing with small sample sizes then I can argue that he only averaged 2.3 TO/g per 36 last season.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    Prime wrote: View Post
    You are correct. But just a week ago his TO/g per36 numbers was nearly 6. Considering that Lin hasn't even played half the minutes that Wall or DWill has, it's not a very good sample size to use for extrapolation.
    Ah, then you have no stance what so ever to defend him. That sample size is all there is and if it's not enough to criticize him then it's not enough to endorse him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prime
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Not so. Wall and Williams are playing ten extra MPG. If you calculate Lin's TO/min and then multiply the rate by 36MPG(roughly what Wall & Williams play) you'll clearly see he turns the ball over an extra time per game.
    You are correct. But just a week ago his TO/g per36 numbers was nearly 6. Considering that Lin hasn't even played half the minutes that Wall or DWill has, it's not a very good sample size to use for extrapolation.

    And that's not even considering the fact that both Wall and Williams outclass Lin in raw talent and athleticism.

    Lin isn't qualified to hold D-Will's towel on the sidelines if you want to start comparing them.
    But I'm not comparing them based on talent or athleticism.

    Leave a comment:

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