Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The art of 'hitting the ground running': What realistic piece would help HTGR? (39)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The art of 'hitting the ground running': What realistic piece would help HTGR? (39)

    So I guess this is the financial upside of the Barbosa trade. If he stayed and his contract came of the books july 1st, we would have that money to spend but so would every other team with expiring contracts. By getting rid of it now, we have about $12 million in cap space to use before July 1st (apparently a larger amount than most according to Bryco on the radio today). We all know what an (non) asset the TPE was...what do you think of this bargaining chip? I guess teams with realistic shots at big name FA's might be dumping talented players to clear room for July 1st. Any recent trades like that come to mind?

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...ers_breakdown/

    edit: just don't post this one o On June 13, 2009, Miami acquired Jermaine O'Neal, Jamario Moon, a future first-round pick and a 2010 second-round pick from Toronto in exchange for Shawn Marion, Marcus Banks and cash considerations.[51]

  • #2
    Jclaw wrote: View Post
    So I guess this is the financial upside of the Barbosa trade. If he stayed and his contract came of the books july 1st, we would have that money to spend but so would every other team with expiring contracts. By getting rid of it now, we have about $12 million in cap space to use before July 1st (apparently a larger amount than most according to Bryco on the radio today). We all know what an (non) asset the TPE was...what do you think of this bargaining chip? I guess teams with realistic shots at big name FA's might be dumping talented players to clear room for July 1st. Any recent trades like that come to mind?

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...ers_breakdown/
    *I will apologize now but I am going to change your title because it is misleading.*

    The trade deadline for the 2011-12 season has passed. Trades can be made at the conclusion of the season among non-playoff teams and play-off teams can make trades once they are eliminated. The league usually places a ban on trades during the Finals as to not take away the hype from it (LBJ missed that memo as he had an interview regarding free agency with Larry King DURING the finals in 2010).


    As to your post, this does put the Raptors in a better position at the end of the season and, more importantly in my opinion, on draft night. Many trades often happen on draft night but delayed until after July 1st or July 7th - much like the JO-Ford trade 4 years ago - so I don't see it as a huge deal. However the Raptors can certainly talk with teams after the season and during the draft with all parties knowing something can be done immediately.


    With the move, the Raptors can pull off some pretty significant trades as they can take back up to $12M in salary before worrying about sending any out to match under CBA rules.

    Comment


    • #3
      Good clarification. Thanks. I agree, it could make draft night more interesting.

      Comment


      • #4
        The art of 'hitting the ground running'

        "The growth of these young players and the opportunity that they're going to have to play night in and night out against the best talent out there, that's all positive. To put ourselves in position to hit the ground running in the following season, that will be deemed a success." - Colangelo, on the goals of this season and the future

        http://www.nationalpost.com/sinking+...615/story.html

        There have been a lot of negative criticism regarding the Barbosa trade - especially on the homepage of RR. Most people are lamenting over the return of 'only' a second round pick and cap space. Personally, I disagree - and I'll explain why in a bit.

        Regarding draft picks, it was clear there was a high premium placed on first round draft picks. All picks traded had some form of protection attached or picks were traded that already had restrictions in place (Dallas' top 20 pick from LAL that went to Houston). Examples of teams receiving picks had them taking $6M in salary for next year with lottery protections on the pick (Cleveland/Walton/LAL pick) and Portland received NJ's pick with top 3 protections but they sent away an older, established, expensive player (Wallace - 30 this summer) that no longer fit with the plans with the plans in Portland (personally, I think NJ are nuts and extremely short-sighted but I understand why they did it - especially if the pick becomes top 3).

        With regards to taking back players, it is a catch 22. Like it or not, if you add talent to Toronto you are risking reducing opportunity to get a high pick. Call it tanking or what you will - be for it or against it but please don't debate it here - but at the end of the day it is true. Nothing is definite but why put yourself in position to risk missing the opportunity? Also, if you bring in a talented player, you have to play them. If the Raptors are to figure out who is staying or going for next season, who is a part of the core moving forward and who is not, then they have to play. With regards to the Barbosa trade this is especially relevant to Bayless and to a lesser extent, Forbes.

        So back to the 'hitting the ground running' rhetoric and why the deal is important for Toronto. Expiring deals are great for cap space and free agency AFTER July 1st. Until July 1st - i.e. once the season ends and especially draft night - expiring contracts are still counting against the cap. By trading Barbosa, the Raptors have now created another $7.6M in cap space that can be used to acquire players via trade. Personally, I like this route versus the many variables that go in to free agency and especially restricted free agency. The addition of a second 2nd round pick also acts as a sweetener or bonus in any possible trade which certainly does not hurt - in addition to possible future picks with or without protections.

        The Raptors are now in a position to add up to $12M in salary before sending out a penny in return. Needless to say that amount of money could come in extremely useful if a team decides to blow it up like Portland did or go in another direction like both Milwaukee and Golden State did.

        Also the cap holds of JV, 2012 pick, Weems, and Bayless do not count against the salary cap until July 1st. The Raptors can act in a manner before July 1st without having to lose assets for nothing in pursuit of a free agent. They would also then have Bird Rights and sign and trade possibilities with Weems and Bayless.

        Finally, the Raptors - assuming they acquire salary via trade prior to July 1st - would then have their exceptions to use (bi-annual and MLE).


        So to wrap up the 'hitting the ground running' propaganda:


        The Raptors could take the core they have now in to next year (JV, Calderon, Bargnani, Amir, JJ, DD, ED, Kleiza, and Forbes) and:

        - before July 1st they could acquire a starter quality player via trade and add draft pick(s)

        - after July 1st add experience, toughness, and shooting via MLE and bi-annual exception.


        The whole scenario rests on making a trade prior to July 1st but if they did and then took advantage of MLE which would (hopefully) add another useful piece, the Raptors might be in really good position to hit the ground running next year.

        Also then next summer the Raptors would have all their cap space allocated and could use their Bird Rights to retain RFA's (DD and JJ) or perform sign and trades (i.e. not lose an asset for absolutely nothing).


        Anyone else want some BC-flavoured kool-aid?

        Comment


        • #5
          I am on board with this.
          Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

          Comment


          • #6
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            There have been a lot of negative criticism regarding the Barbosa trade - especially on the homepage of RR. Most people are lamenting over the return of 'only' a second round pick and cap space. Personally, I disagree - and I'll explain why in a bit.

            Regarding draft picks, it was clear there was a high premium placed on first round draft picks. All picks traded had some form of protection attached or picks were traded that already had restrictions in place (Dallas' top 20 pick from LAL that went to Houston). Examples of teams receiving picks had them taking $6M in salary for next year with lottery protections on the pick (Cleveland/Walton/LAL pick) and Portland received NJ's pick with top 3 protections but they sent away an older, established, expensive player (Wallace - 30 this summer) that no longer fit with the plans with the plans in Portland (personally, I think NJ are nuts and extremely short-sighted but I understand why they did it - especially if the pick becomes top 3).

            With regards to taking back players, it is a catch 22. Like it or not, if you add talent to Toronto you are risking reducing opportunity to get a high pick. Call it tanking or what you will - be for it or against it but please don't debate it here - but at the end of the day it is true. Nothing is definite but why put yourself in position to risk missing the opportunity? Also, if you bring in a talented player, you have to play them. If the Raptors are to figure out who is staying or going for next season, who is a part of the core moving forward and who is not, then they have to play. With regards to the Barbosa trade this is especially relevant to Bayless and to a lesser extent, Forbes.

            So back to the 'hitting the ground running' rhetoric and why the deal is important for Toronto. Expiring deals are great for cap space and free agency AFTER July 1st. Until July 1st - i.e. once the season ends and especially draft night - expiring contracts are still counting against the cap. By trading Barbosa, the Raptors have now created another $7.6M in cap space that can be used to acquire players via trade. Personally, I like this route versus the many variables that go in to free agency and especially restricted free agency. The addition of a second 2nd round pick also acts as a sweetener or bonus in any possible trade which certainly does not hurt - in addition to possible future picks with or without protections.

            The Raptors are now in a position to add up to $12M in salary before sending out a penny in return. Needless to say that amount of money could come in extremely useful if a team decides to blow it up like Portland did or go in another direction like both Milwaukee and Golden State did.

            Also the cap holds of JV, 2012 pick, Weems, and Bayless do not count against the salary cap until July 1st. The Raptors can act in a manner before July 1st without having to lose assets for nothing in pursuit of a free agent. They would also then have Bird Rights and sign and trade possibilities with Weems and Bayless.

            Finally, the Raptors - assuming they acquire salary via trade prior to July 1st - would then have their exceptions to use (bi-annual and MLE).


            So to wrap up the 'hitting the ground running' propaganda:


            The Raptors could take the core they have now in to next year (JV, Calderon, Bargnani, Amir, JJ, DD, ED, Kleiza, and Forbes) and:

            - before July 1st they could acquire a starter quality player via trade and add draft pick(s)

            - after July 1st add experience, toughness, and shooting via MLE and bi-annual exception.


            The whole scenario rests on making a trade prior to July 1st but if they did and then took advantage of MLE which would (hopefully) add another useful piece, the Raptors might be in really good position to hit the ground running next year.

            Also then next summer the Raptors would have all their cap space allocated and could use their Bird Rights to retain RFA's (DD and JJ) or perform sign and trades (i.e. not lose an asset for absolutely nothing).


            Anyone else want some BC-flavoured kool-aid?


            After hearing the interviews with Colangelo the trade does make more sense. Hopefully he has the chance to use the flexibility during that second trading period. There's a lot of "what if's" hanging around our future. Hopefully it's not more smoke.

            Comment


            • #7
              good thread. all the people freaking out about the barbosa trade gave me a wicked headache.
              @sweatpantsjer

              Comment


              • #8
                Nice post.

                I couldn't figure out why anybody was opposed to the trade, aside from hoping they could have gotten more for Barbosa. If there is one thing about BC that I am confident about, is that he ensured the deal with Indi was the best option without salary coming back.

                POSITIVES
                - more cap space ahead of the July 1st date, before expiring contracts are cleared off the books
                - makes the the team slightly worse this season, helping the "drive for top 5" pick in the upcoming draft (sounds more positive than "tank nation" lol)
                - an additional 2nd round pick in the draft and/or another tradeable asset
                - more playing/evaluation time for Bayless and Forbes, even when Calderon comes back
                - Barbosa could very well still re-sign here in the offseason, as if he never left

                CONS
                - hurts the Raps playoff drive??? Seriously, what down side is there really to this trade???

                Comment


                • #9
                  Odds of us actually drafting players with both 2nd round picks is slim to none. Maybe he'll sell the pacers one for cash.
                  @sweatpantsjer

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Matt, I couldn't help but channel your Nash post while reading a quote from BC in a TSN article about the Barbosa trade.

                    Article Link: http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=390416

                    Colangelo said several teams inquired about starting point guard Jose Calderon.

                    "He's an important piece to us right now, he's our No. 1 point guard, he's our starting point guard, and until we're in a position to replace that, that obviously is going to stay the case," Colangelo said. "We like what he's doing with this group, he's really playing at a high level under coach (Dwane) Casey."
                    I wonder if all that cap space to make a trade ahead of the draft might be used to target a replacement like say, oh I don't know, Nash??? The Raptors could look to trade away Calderon and his expiring contract for another pick in the draft in one deal (Calderon & one/both 2nd round picks for a 1st round pick?), after working a S&T deal with Phoenix to bring in Nash as Calderon's replacement (maybe a 2nd round pick to Phoenix as a thank you for doing the S&T).

                    It was just the way BC worded his message that got me thinking... and it was also a backhanded slap across Bayless' face, not to be considered an internal replacement for Calderon. It seems that BC really wants to have a pass-first PG running the show.
                    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Mar 16th, 2012, 10:29 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post

                      Anyone else want some BC-flavoured kool-aid?
                      Sorry, not drinking the BC kool-aid anymore.

                      This all sounds great in theory but implicit is the assumption that Colangelo will make the correct decisions. I have no confidence in that. Even granting that, cap space is only good if free agents will take your money and/or their are trades available to get elite talent back. Not only are those unknowns right now but I have real questions about whether this team has any assets that can be moved for a good return.

                      You can be optimistic about the position Toronto has put itself in but this talk about "hitting the ground running" or "the rebuilding is over and we're building", "the future is bright"... sorry. The rebuilding hasn't even started yet, they're still tearing it down. The rebuilding willl begin next year when JV and the 2012 pick arrive and whatever other young talent Colangelo finds to put around them. The financial position Toronto is in gives them opportunities but the future is only going to be bright if those opportunities are capitalized on in a meaningful way. This management team had a lot of opportunities in the summer of 2006 and it blew. Let's hope it has things figured out this time.
                      Last edited by slaw; Fri Mar 16th, 2012, 10:52 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        Matt, I couldn't help but channel your Nash post while reading a quote from BC in a TSN article about the Barbosa trade.

                        Article Link: http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=390416

                        I wonder if all that cap space to make a trade ahead of the draft might be used to target a replacement like say, oh I don't know, Nash??? The Raptors could look to trade away Calderon and his expiring contract for another pick in the draft in one deal, after working a S&T deal with Phoenix to bring in Nash as Calderon's replacement.

                        It was just the way BC worded his message that got me thinking... and it was also a backhanded slap across Bayless' face, not to be considered an internal replacement for Calderon. It seems that BC really wants to have a pass-first PG running the show.
                        I don't know... I thought it sounded like maybe someone younger. I mean, Nash would certainly be a "replacement" for Calderon, but not a long-term one. They still need that young PG, unless Colangelo thinks Nash has 4-5 good years left in him to stay with the current core of youngsters through their development to contenders. They'll need to either sign a young guy who can start now and into the next 4 years or so, or sign a temporary solution like Nash along with drafting or signing a guy who can understudy Nash/Calderon. If the 2nd is the way they plan to go, then I'd personally just stick with Calderon unless Nash is coming cheap.

                        In my opinion, Bayless is already written off as a potential replacement to Calderon by management. That's just a guess. I do think he still has a chance to grab the Barbosa, off-the-bench scorer role down the stretch here if he really proves he's worth more than $4M/year in that role, but even that's no sure thing. Colangelo keeps drilling the "flexibility" angle, so tying up over $4M in a QO for Bayless on July 1 doesn't seem like it will be in the plans...

                        I really like the interview; shows they have been planning for this summer for the past 2 years with the moves they've been making. Strategy and exceution have been sound. The groundwork has been set. Now, as Slaw says, it's time to see if they can make the "right" decisions...
                        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          There have been a lot of negative criticism regarding the Barbosa trade - especially on the homepage of RR. Most people are lamenting over the return of 'only' a second round pick and cap space. Personally, I disagree - and I'll explain why in a bit.

                          Regarding draft picks, it was clear there was a high premium placed on first round draft picks. All picks traded had some form of protection attached or picks were traded that already had restrictions in place (Dallas' top 20 pick from LAL that went to Houston). Examples of teams receiving picks had them taking $6M in salary for next year with lottery protections on the pick (Cleveland/Walton/LAL pick) and Portland received NJ's pick with top 3 protections but they sent away an older, established, expensive player (Wallace - 30 this summer) that no longer fit with the plans with the plans in Portland (personally, I think NJ are nuts and extremely short-sighted but I understand why they did it - especially if the pick becomes top 3).

                          With regards to taking back players, it is a catch 22. Like it or not, if you add talent to Toronto you are risking reducing opportunity to get a high pick. Call it tanking or what you will - be for it or against it but please don't debate it here - but at the end of the day it is true. Nothing is definite but why put yourself in position to risk missing the opportunity? Also, if you bring in a talented player, you have to play them. If the Raptors are to figure out who is staying or going for next season, who is a part of the core moving forward and who is not, then they have to play. With regards to the Barbosa trade this is especially relevant to Bayless and to a lesser extent, Forbes.

                          So back to the 'hitting the ground running' rhetoric and why the deal is important for Toronto. Expiring deals are great for cap space and free agency AFTER July 1st. Until July 1st - i.e. once the season ends and especially draft night - expiring contracts are still counting against the cap. By trading Barbosa, the Raptors have now created another $7.6M in cap space that can be used to acquire players via trade. Personally, I like this route versus the many variables that go in to free agency and especially restricted free agency. The addition of a second 2nd round pick also acts as a sweetener or bonus in any possible trade which certainly does not hurt - in addition to possible future picks with or without protections.

                          The Raptors are now in a position to add up to $12M in salary before sending out a penny in return. Needless to say that amount of money could come in extremely useful if a team decides to blow it up like Portland did or go in another direction like both Milwaukee and Golden State did.

                          Also the cap holds of JV, 2012 pick, Weems, and Bayless do not count against the salary cap until July 1st. The Raptors can act in a manner before July 1st without having to lose assets for nothing in pursuit of a free agent. They would also then have Bird Rights and sign and trade possibilities with Weems and Bayless.

                          Finally, the Raptors - assuming they acquire salary via trade prior to July 1st - would then have their exceptions to use (bi-annual and MLE).


                          So to wrap up the 'hitting the ground running' propaganda:


                          The Raptors could take the core they have now in to next year (JV, Calderon, Bargnani, Amir, JJ, DD, ED, Kleiza, and Forbes) and:

                          - before July 1st they could acquire a starter quality player via trade and add draft pick(s)

                          - after July 1st add experience, toughness, and shooting via MLE and bi-annual exception.


                          The whole scenario rests on making a trade prior to July 1st but if they did and then took advantage of MLE which would (hopefully) add another useful piece, the Raptors might be in really good position to hit the ground running next year.

                          Also then next summer the Raptors would have all their cap space allocated and could use their Bird Rights to retain RFA's (DD and JJ) or perform sign and trades (i.e. not lose an asset for absolutely nothing).


                          Anyone else want some BC-flavoured kool-aid?
                          You raise a very interesting and valid point Matt. The flexibility prior to July 1st compared to after July 1st is something I was not aware of. Very good post.
                          "Defense wins championships."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ceez wrote: View Post
                            good thread. all the people freaking out about the barbosa trade gave me a wicked headache.
                            I know. I don't understand why ppl are freaking out. I think a second rounder is much better than expected. I mean its not like we went after Gerald Wallace and gave up a first rounder for him (sorry New Jersey). Also, as for the playoff talk, that's absolutely nonsense. What, they sneak in and then be blown out of the water in 3 games? Wonderful. Besides, I want to see Forbes more. Didn't the team went after him and gave him another two years? He was rotting at the end of the bench until recently.
                            “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                              Matt, I couldn't help but channel your Nash post while reading a quote from BC in a TSN article about the Barbosa trade.

                              Article Link: http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=390416



                              I wonder if all that cap space to make a trade ahead of the draft might be used to target a replacement like say, oh I don't know, Nash??? The Raptors could look to trade away Calderon and his expiring contract for another pick in the draft in one deal (Calderon & one/both 2nd round picks for a 1st round pick?), after working a S&T deal with Phoenix to bring in Nash as Calderon's replacement (maybe a 2nd round pick to Phoenix as a thank you for doing the S&T).

                              It was just the way BC worded his message that got me thinking... and it was also a backhanded slap across Bayless' face, not to be considered an internal replacement for Calderon. It seems that BC really wants to have a pass-first PG running the show.
                              As long as Calderon doesn't have any major injury before the end of the season (*knock on wood*), I think he does have value before July 1st. I agree he could be a piece in any Nash trade - or anyone else for that matter.

                              I had not read this article until now but it basically says the same thing I was trying to get across. If I had read this I could have saved myself a lot of time and just copy and pasted with the link!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X