Everything Tanking ;) Raptor still have a long shot at 3rd worst record...

[themasao]

As an aside:

Garcia and Hayes' reaction had me laughing...and scratching my head. Do individual players really care about tanking?

[themasao]

Oh I doubt it will happen too, but you could say that for any proposal. This is all theoretical, from-the-armchair stuff. The problem is that Stern actually changing the system means two things: 1) Admitting his first solution (i.e. 1985 invention of the lottery) was a bust. 2) Admitting teams in his league are tanking. We all saw the attitude he took during the lockout; I think the earliest a change would realistically be made is when a new commissioner takes over.

[akashsingh]

Ain't gonna happen unless teams really break tanking records like 1-81 season or something messed like that.

I had just smoked a blunt to celebrate finishing my exams, I may have over exagerated a little.

[e2thed]

^^^ this is the best idea I've ever heard.

Ain't gonna happen unless teams really break tanking records like 1-81 season or something messed like that.

[akashsingh]

^^^ this is the best idea I've ever heard.

[themasao]

Fixing Tanking

So HoopIdea has done a whole thing on tanking (perhaps sparked by J. Van Gundy's recent comments) and it reminded me of the article Liston posted a while back about how to fix the NBA's CLEAR tanking problem.

I mean, it's going on this year as badly as ever (which is saying something -- see article below) and regardless of how you feel about tanking as a raptors fan, it is a problem. I'm not going to get into the pros and cons of tanking from the Raptors perspective, that's obviously been WELL covered on these forums. What I'm more interested in is, from the perspective of the league as a whole in maintaining its competitiveness and integrity....what do you do if you're Stern?

Here's what I was thinking: have a Draft Playoffs. I haven't worked out the details really, but the basic idea is that the teams that don't make the playoffs compete (say, in the week before the real playoffs start) in a march madness-esque tournament to decide who gets the best pick. You would have to do the seeding differently so that the best teams didn't elimenate the worst teams right off the bat (you still want to favour the worst teams in some way), but ultimately, you have to earn the pick.

This solves a few problems:
1) The incentives for losing during the regular season are diminished -- all you're accomplishing is establishing better seeding.
2) The pain and stupor of meaningless late season games for non-playoff teams is reduced -- there is something tangible to compete for (and, at least, your team won't be tanking).
3) Presumably, it helps bring in more revenue for the league -- more playoff games (of whatever sort) means more money.

Anyways, it'd be cool to here what everyone else's ideal tank-fix scenario is. And if I've completely missed something with this suggestion (which I probably have), point it out!

At the end of the day, I want AD as much as the next person, but I'd love to do it by winning, not losing.

(HoopIdea link: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...tell-the-truth )

[Puffer]

Great article. I am with this 100%

[jbml]

Chisolm's take on tanking

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/tim_chisholm/?id=393355
"Here's the truth: The only thing more valuable to a losing team than high picks is a winning culture."

[Bendit]

I'd go for a no draft league but with a cba that has a hard cap with a max 3-4 yr guaranteed money. I'd even think about no max/min salary for individual players. Stockpiling of the best would become onerous and players will either take large cuts to play with their fellow best or play for teams who have the cap space and pay the going/market rate for the star. If the objective is the spread of talent this should work. I doubt though that the PA would go for this...something about having their cake and....

[Nilanka]

If you get rid of the draft, you also have to fold about 15 teams or you will have a European soccer league.

Not to mention the fact that losing teams will ALWAYS be losers.

[slaw]

If the NBA would get rid of the draft it would fix this bizarro NBA where losing is a positive.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...itch-the-draft

If you get rid of the draft, you also have to fold about 15 teams or you will have a European soccer league.

[Nilanka]

What do people think about the HEAT resting players for "maintenance" as was seen tonight with Bosh and Wade sitting?

The Spurs do it as well.

I can't find the tweet with the quote from Gregg Popovich but he essentially said, "Teams should win for themselves so what another team does is irrelevant."

He mentioned the idea of the paying fan not seeing the top players but his response was (paraphrasing): "I am doing what is in the best interests of the team. My job is to win and I do what I have to do to get there."


My opinion: teams at the top are going to do what they need to do to win. Teams at the bottom are going to do the same. The difference is good teams resting starters/better players are looking at the immediate future and bad teams 'resting' starters/better players are looking long term.


Bringing it back to the original post, I still think the current set up is the best balance of getting talent to struggling franchises while not automatically rewarding the worst team with the best pick. But that is just this super moderator's illustrious opinion, lol.

I don't have a problem with teams resting star players. As for fans wanting to see superstars: Newsflash, basketball is a team sport. If you wanna see 1-man shows, try tennis.

[Miekenstien]

Henry Abbott is the opinion that hits the nail on the head for me with tanking and paying customers paying to see "bad teams trying to be bad," but then Abbott has been labeled a "douchebag" (?????) by our illustrious super moderator.

i find abbot to have the most company friendly and player friendly opinion of anybody on espn. his articles are garbage to me. if you read through his archive he has miami' balls with the shaft way down in his stomach. new york is another team he is always arguing in favour of. if lebron were to piss anywhere he wanted abbot would explain to everyone why he was allowed to and how we should mop it up.

[mcHAPPY]

What about the flip side of tanking?

What do people think about the HEAT resting players for "maintenance" as was seen tonight with Bosh and Wade sitting?

The Spurs do it as well.

I can't find the tweet with the quote from Gregg Popovich but he essentially said, "Teams should win for themselves so what another team does is irrelevant."

He mentioned the idea of the paying fan not seeing the top players but his response was (paraphrasing): "I am doing what is in the best interests of the team. My job is to win and I do what I have to do to get there."


My opinion: teams at the top are going to do what they need to do to win. Teams at the bottom are going to do the same. The difference is good teams resting starters/better players are looking at the immediate future and bad teams 'resting' starters/better players are looking long term.


Bringing it back to the original post, I still think the current set up is the best balance of getting talent to struggling franchises while not automatically rewarding the worst team with the best pick. But that is just this super moderator's illustrious opinion, lol.

[mcHAPPY]

Henry Abbott is the opinion that hits the nail on the head for me with tanking and paying customers paying to see "bad teams trying to be bad," but then Abbott has been labeled a "douchebag" (?????) by our illustrious super moderator.

Yes and the context in which the comment was made can be found here:

http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...l=1#post124311

I stand by the comment. If the larger and more desirable markets were in the draft this year, the tanking drum beat would not be this loud. As I showed in the comment above, just about every single playoff team has been built through the draft lottery.

Given the system - especially for small market teams - to build a winning team you need talent and the best way to get talent is through the draft lottery.

Henry Abbott's opinion doesn't factor in ever getting out of the cellar. Does a paying fan continue to support a team stuck in purgatory with little chance of ever getting out?

Sometimes to take a step forward you need to take one or two back. Being competitive year in and year out (just missing playoffs or first round exit) is really admirable. Unfortunately, professional sports are not played to be competitive - they are played to be won.