Everything Tanking ;) Raptor still have a long shot at 3rd worst record...

[stretch]

Henry Abbott is the opinion that hits the nail on the head for me with tanking and paying customers paying to see "bad teams trying to be bad," but then Abbott has been labeled a "douchebag" (?????) by our illustrious super moderator.

[Red and White]

Just some opinions on tanking.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

we still have a chance to get to #5! We have to lose every game from now on, most importantly to Cleveland and NJ. Cleveland still has Washington to play, so that would even out our records.

First, Toronto doesn't play Cleveland again this year. Toronto plays Miami (no Wade or Bosh), Detroit, Milwaukee and New Jersey.

Second, given the remaining schedule, I find it more likely that Toronto will wind up in the 6th spot heading into the lottery. I seriously doubt either Sacramento or Cleveland will win more than 1 game each, leaving them in the #4/5 spots. If Toronto loses all 4 games, they would secure the #6 spot, meaning they could draft 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th...

CURRENT WINS & REMAINING GAMES
7 - Charlotte (will finish #1)
15 - Washington (will finish #2)
19 - New Orleans (Memphis, Houston, LAC, Golden State, Houston)
20 - Sacramento (San Antonio, Oklahoma, Charlotte, Oklahoma, LAL)
20 - Cleveland (Philadelphia, NY, San Antonio, Memphis, Washington, Chicago)
22 - Toronto (Miami, Detroit, Milwaukee, NJ)
22 - New Jersey (NY, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Toronto)
22 - Golden State (LAL, Dallas, Houston, Minnesota, New Orleans, San Antonio)
23 - Detroit (Atlanta, Minnesota, Toronto, Indiana, Philadelphia)

[Nilanka]

Casey admits to tanking

This article was posted by someone on the msg board.

2005-06 Minnesota Timberwolves
The most spectacular tank job in recent memory occurred on April 19, 2006, in a Minnesota-Memphis game that is still a common punch line around the league.

Earlier that month, Chicago Tribune NBA writer Sam Smith had called out the Timberwolves and the league:

The NBA should take a look at this one in the interest of the game's integrity and paying customers. Minnesota needs to have one of the top 10 poorest records to keep its draft pick. Otherwise, it goes to the Clippers from the Sam Cassell-Marko Jaric deal.

In a 103-95 loss to the Jazz at home on Friday, [Kevin] Garnett sat out the fourth quarter after making all of his third-quarter shots. Garnett had 13 rebounds through three quarters, and Minnesota was outrebounded 18-6 in the fourth.

It's reminiscent of the game-throwing days before the draft lottery was started.

In the final game of the season, the Wolves sat Garnett and Ricky Davis, and then turned the game against Memphis into a joke by inserting Mark Madsen and letting him fire away. In six seasons, Madsen had made only one 3-pointer in nine attempts. But in that game he tossed up seven 3-pointers and missed them all -- they were his only 3-point attempts of the season. The Wolves lost the game in double overtime (Madsen started the second overtime with three 3-point bricks in less than a minute) and secured the draft pick.

After the game, Wolves coach Dwane Casey didn’t deny that the team was less than serious about winning the game: "The guys were having fun with it. For what we've been through this season, I thought the guys deserved it. I hope what we did didn't make a mockery of the game."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...tell-the-truth

[ogitheserb]

we still have a chance to get to #5! We have to lose every game from now on, most importantly to Cleveland and NJ. Cleveland still has Washington to play, so that would even out our records.

[Papa Burgundy]

if we land 5-9 and beal is up it doesn't seem like a gamble to me at all but a massive stroke of luck

True ... After Anthony Davis, there is nobody who is guaranteed to be above Beal - could easily be #2 or #3. This writer has an ignorance toward the draft, why even mention not believing in Jones or Sullinger? PJ3 won't even be in the discussion for us, even if we slipped all the way to 8 or 9.

[mcHAPPY]

if we land 5-9 and beal is up it doesn't seem like a gamble to me at all but a massive stroke of luck

+1

Who knows what the consensus will be in 2 months though.

[Miekenstien]

if we land 5-9 and beal is up it doesn't seem like a gamble to me at all but a massive stroke of luck

[Toinsy]

Funny Tanking Article

.....from the guys over at Grantland.

5. Toronto: 22 Wins
Personnel "Decisions": Last week, the Raptors announced that Andrea Bargnani had strained his left calf and would miss the remainder of the season. On Saturday, they announced that Jose Calderon would miss Sunday's game against Atlanta with a lacerated right eyebrow.

Recent Games: On Friday, the Raptors beat the Celtics in Toronto. Someone named Ben Uzoh played 32 minutes. On Sunday, the Raptors blew out the Hawks. Alan Anderson, who apparently played for Michigan State as recently as 2004, started his seventh game of the season. The Raptors had cleared a path to tank past Cleveland, but those two wins and a season finale against the Nets could bump them all the way down to the no. 8 slot.

On Monday, the Raptors lost to the Hawks by 22. Calderon, Linas Kleiza, and Jamaal Magloire all picked up DNP-CDs.

Remaining Schedule: @MIA, @DET, @MIL, NJN

Verdict: The Raptors have a ton of cap space for next season and will be adding Euro sensation Jonas Valanciunas. Bargnani and Calderon are quality NBA players. Amir Johnson could become a serviceable rotation guy. DeMar DeRozan seems to be teetering on the edge of the useless netherworld of Jordan Crawford, but still has the potential to become a high-energy Microwave Man. The problem is that none of the players projected to go between the no. 5 pick and the no. 9 pick makes much sense for the Raptors. Gun to head, I'd say they should be the team that takes the Bradley Beal gamble, but that's mostly because I don't believe in Jared Sullinger or Perry Jones.

grantland.com

Despite the author's ignorance towards Derozan, there's some good interesting points here.

[mcHAPPY]

Does tanking even work?

From True Hoop's Henry Abbott, source: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...king-even-work

These guys are douchebags.

The comments I made in this post a few weeks back still remain:

Are people really this fickle?

The problem here is that, generally speaking, most of teams in the lottery right now are smaller market or less 'desirable' teams.

All the national writers are based in larger markets. They are pushing their agendas because their hometown teams are not getting the Anthony Davis or Brad Beal or MKG or Barnes or Drummond or Robinson i.e. top young talent.

The critical thinking skills of people - writers and fans alike - is deplorable. Look at the teams currently in the playoffs and how they got there, generally speaking it was obtaining a talent via the draft and building from there:

Chicago - Rose, Noah - lottery picks
Miami - Wade - lottery pick
Orlando - Howard - lottery pick
Philadelphia - AI - lottery pick
Indiana - draft picks - only George is lottery and a high lottery at that
Atlanta - Horford - lottery (and imagine they had picked Williams or Paul instead of Marvin?)
Boston - Pierce - lottery (and lottery picks for other talent)
New York - big exception and they are 8th seed with limited options past this year
OKC - Durant/Westbrook/Harden - lottery/lottery/lottery
San Antonio - Duncan - lottery
Lakers - Kobe, Bynum - lottery trade, lottery
Clippers - Griffin, CP3 - lottery and assets from lottery
Dallas - Dirk - lottery
Memphis - Gay, Conley, Gasol - lottery, lottery, lottery pick traded
Utah - rebuilding team with young pieces based from lottery and trading Williams (lottery pick) - LOTTERY
Houston - purgatory team


So looking at the 16 teams above, only 3 teams can honestly be said they didn't get their foundation from the lottery (Houston, New York, Indiana). Yes, there were other factors (free agency and trades) but looking at each team, its core is comprised of a lottery pick(s).


The system is fine. The NY writers are bitching because the Knicks have f*cked up a 7 year rebuild in less than a season and they now have no other means of adding highly talented players.

http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...l=1#post122373

[stretch]

Does tanking even work?

From True Hoop's Henry Abbott, source: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...king-even-work

If tanking is a great way to win a title, then quick, name a team that has done it.

Anyone? Anyone?

We're looking for a team that had a horrible record, won one of those magical, coveted top-three draft picks the Bobcats are after, and celebrated a title in the following four years because of that special player.

If you said the San Antonio Spurs, congratulations ... kind of. In the history of the lottery, which goes back to 1985, it's the only technically correct answer (ignoring Detroit and Darko Milicic, who barely played).

OK, let's expand the limits beyond four years. According to Devin Dignam of the Wages of Wins, there is still a shocking lack of further examples. We can disregard multi-team players like Jason Kidd, who won a title with the team that drafted him (Dallas) only after toiling for 17 years for the Mavericks, the Suns and the Nets. A slightly more pertinent case is the that of David Robinson, who overcame years of frustration by winning a title with San Antonio 12 years after the Spurs made him the No. 1 pick. But Robinson needed Duncan to get it done.

In other words, NBA history has awful news for bad teams hoping to become great through the magic of a high pick.

Tanking, as a way to get good, is not tried and true. It is tried and tried and tried and tried and once-in-a-long-while kind of true.

More importantly, the Spurs are no model at all. Yes, they got the top overall pick that became Duncan by winning just 20 games in 1996-97 . But they weren't really a bad team. They were a great team, missing the injured Robinson. But that was just a timely blip. In the three seasons prior, the Spurs contended for the title, winning 55, 62 and 59 games. They had been among the league's top teams for seven years running.

Duncan didn't make a bad team amazing. He made an amazing team into champions.

Continued bad luck for lottery teams

You have probably heard about the large number of people who win millions in the real lottery and are broke again a few years later.

The same is a little true in the NBA, where the good teams tend to stay that way, and the bad teams tend to stay that way, too.

[mcHAPPY]

Or better relegate the bottom 4 teams into the D-league and bring in the top 4 D-leaguers into NBA. Soccer teams across europe do this. Keep the lottery system so that the new teams get an influx of talent .


What kind of sportsfan wants to see his team suck and lose intentionally? Why watch a sport if all you are interested in is winning a trophy later in the future?
Tanking is a big no-no for me.

Bottom teams play hard to fight relegation because with relegation you lose a percentage of your wages, tv money and all the bonuses. So the players and management have everything to lose by tanking. This way other cities can have a shot at NBA too and the D-league gets more significant. Imagine teams like Seattle and Vancouver back in NBA even if it is only for a season because of promotion and relegation.

What sports fan wants to see a team be one and done in the playoffs every other year while getting the 13th or 14th pick the other seasons? Mediocrity is worse than losing.

There is already too little talent throughout the league. Bringing up D-League teams only makes things worse.

The worse NBA team would absolutely destroy a D-League team.

Some of the markets in the D-League are smaller than Moose Jaw.

I like the concept but it would never fly.

[draftedraptor]

If the NBA would get rid of the draft it would fix this bizarro NBA where losing is a positive.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...itch-the-draft

Or better relegate the bottom 4 teams into the D-league and bring in the top 4 D-leaguers into NBA. Soccer teams across europe do this. Keep the lottery system so that the new teams get an influx of talent .


What kind of sportsfan wants to see his team suck and lose intentionally? Why watch a sport if all you are interested in is winning a trophy later in the future?
Tanking is a big no-no for me.

Bottom teams play hard to fight relegation because with relegation you lose a percentage of your wages, tv money and all the bonuses. So the players and management have everything to lose by tanking. This way other cities can have a shot at NBA too and the D-league gets more significant. Imagine teams like Seattle and Vancouver back in NBA even if it is only for a season because of promotion and relegation.

[Puffer]

You need to be ethical and make the most out of your opportunities. The Lakers current superstar was drafted 13th overall. The guy they're grooming to take over was drafted 10th overall....Steve Nash 15th overall....Amare Stoudemire 9th overall....Shawn Marion 9th overall....Michael Finley 21st overall....Stephen Jackson 44th overall. He's proven many, many times that no matter where he is in the draft he can land a really good player.

Thank you for this post.

[Apollo]

You need to be ethical and make the most out of your opportunities. The Lakers current superstar was drafted 13th overall. The guy they're grooming to take over was drafted 10th overall. Stars go later in the draft all the time. Colangelo drafted Steve Nash 15th overall. He drafted Amare Stoudemire 9th overall. He drafted Shawn Marion 9th overall. He drafted Michael Finley 21st overall. He drafted Stephen Jackson 44th overall. He's proven many, many times that no matter where he is in the draft he can land a really good player.