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Keeping DeRozen means passing on Barnes?

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  • #31
    I do think the right choice is Barnes, we need the end of a game shooter. He may be passive regarding driving the ball, but he's not afraid to shoot the ball when the game comes down to it. He's been compared to Granger and I am fine with that

    MGK is every coaches dream player but I think unless we get lucky in the lottery, we won't have a chance.

    The thing is, if we pair DD and Barnes, our defense severely lacks but if we pair DD and MGK our offense becomes stagnant with a lack of outside shooting from the wings.

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    • #32
      MKG's scoring or lack thereof isnt nearly the issue a lot of people make it out to be.
      @sweatpantsjer

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      • #33
        ceez wrote: View Post
        MKG's scoring or lack thereof isnt nearly the issue a lot of people make it out to be.
        Exactly.

        And DeRozan hasn't exactly cemented himself as a piece long term. We shouldn't be too concerned about how our pick affects DeRozan.

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        • #34
          I think he's BPA after Davis/Drummond's potential. At 18 if MKG ever develops range he will be a complete player with high intensity & impact in all areas whereas Barnes as a sophmore is leveling out as a shooter IMO more than anything else. (I'm not saying he doesn't do other things well just not as well as MKG) Coming into the season I was hoping to see Barnes create for himself better & have not seen that improvement yet.
          Rookie MKG -13.4 ppg / 7.7 rebs / 2 asts / 1.3 stls / 1.2 blks
          (.494 FG, .344 3PT, .742 FT)

          Sophmore Barnes - 16.8 ppg / 4.8 rebs / 1.1 asts / 1.1 stls / .4 blks
          (.478 FG, .442 3PT, .732 FT)
          Stats indicate he's only better at shooting 3's. This meshes with my visual opinion.

          What stats don't say is how Gilchrist shows up for big games & clutch stops/rebounds.
          The thing is, if we pair DD and Barnes, our defense severely lacks but if we pair DD and MGK our offense becomes stagnant with a lack of outside shooting from the wing but MGK has shown promise in improving his outside shot.

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          • #35
            MKG,

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i72j...eature=related

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9mefHjfo30

            ^fast forward to the 1 minute mark #6/7 (Keep in mind he's 18 facing a good defender in Barnes) He's also more aggressive in attacking the hoop than Barnes.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyd04...eature=related


            In comparison

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEOri...eature=related

            Note that Barnes could not find his way to the rim & most his offence was pull up or spot 3. He's a dangerous shooter but I think MKG has a more complete game. When Jones is off court MKG number does call to run the offence.

            I also think he's an under-rated passer, he knows how to create space with his passes. He draws then kicks, he doesn't just kick + good court vision/decisions..

            Watching how Gilchrist finds Davis, I think he would be a monster with Val in a pick'n'roll

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            • #36
              Will MKG even declare?

              http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/...-return-school

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              • #37

                NO player ever say hes going to school for a year and then comming out for the nba they always say how there going for an education bla bla bla what ever there agent/parents tell them to make them sound good and to make gm's say what a nice guy im drafting him lol.....

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                • #38
                  bounty wrote: View Post
                  I think he's BPA after Davis/Drummond's potential. At 18 if MKG ever develops range he will be a complete player with high intensity & impact in all areas whereas Barnes as a sophmore is leveling out as a shooter IMO more than anything else. (I'm not saying he doesn't do other things well just not as well as MKG) Coming into the season I was hoping to see Barnes create for himself better & have not seen that improvement yet.
                  Rookie MKG -13.4 ppg / 7.7 rebs / 2 asts / 1.3 stls / 1.2 blks
                  (.494 FG, .344 3PT, .742 FT)

                  Sophmore Barnes - 16.8 ppg / 4.8 rebs / 1.1 asts / 1.1 stls / .4 blks
                  (.478 FG, .442 3PT, .732 FT)
                  Stats indicate he's only better at shooting 3's. This meshes with my visual opinion.

                  What stats don't say is how Gilchrist shows up for big games & clutch stops/rebounds.
                  The thing is, if we pair DD and Barnes, our defense severely lacks but if we pair DD and MGK our offense becomes stagnant with a lack of outside shooting from the wing but MGK has shown promise in improving his outside shot.
                  Definitely like his intangibles (hustle, effort) and his defence and rebounding are great, the only issue is will he become a liability in the half court? The Raps are not a running team and don't get out in transition, so he will have to create for himself in the half court and from what I have seen he is raw handling the ball and with his shot in a set offence.

                  This is my concern with his game as there will be very little transition buckets to be had on this team.

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                  • #39
                    Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    If it's a choice between Barnes and MKG, I would go with MKG and hope that with enough practice time, he can develop his offensive game.

                    It's easy to convince players to shoot. It's not easy to get them to go balls out 24/7.
                    +1
                    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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                    • #40
                      Hello wrote: View Post
                      Any chance we could trade DD or Ed for another top 5 pick and draft both?
                      Im assuming it would not happen but its a possibility

                      Any teams (im thinking maybe Washington) That would rather have a 2 year old player like DD who is more ready to play now, then get another rookie?

                      Calderon
                      Barnes
                      MKG
                      Bargs
                      Val

                      I do see a nice blend of offence and defence there.

                      PG aquied in Derozen/calderon trade
                      MKG
                      JJohnson
                      Bargs
                      Val

                      I dont know why people are not feeling JJohnson - he is just rounding the corner of shedding "rookie status" and I see continued improvement in 10 game increments. He will get you 12/8 with a couple blocks and a couple steels while locking down the leagues top wing men.

                      Who ever they draft can fit in with current crop of wing men and then you address the calderon situation <- seems more like a realistic road map to success. If you can get a PG who is a great on the ball defender with that crop of players - watch out!
                      "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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                      • #41
                        sleepz wrote: View Post
                        Definitely like his intangibles (hustle, effort) and his defence and rebounding are great, the only issue is will he become a liability in the half court? The Raps are not a running team and don't get out in transition, so he will have to create for himself in the half court and from what I have seen he is raw handling the ball and with his shot in a set offence.

                        This is my concern with his game as there will be very little transition buckets to be had on this team.

                        MKG can beat his man off the dribble, get to the lane, draw contact and can find the open man when he does drive the ball. He gets to the FT line better than most wing players in this draft. Better than Barnes, better than J. Lamb, better than Beal, etc.

                        It's pretty clear he put's stress on the opposing D, and for a team like us that is 28th or something at getting to the line, he is exactly what we need. It also doesnt hurt that he is an excellent rebounder that could compensate for Bargs.

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                        • #42
                          Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          Yup, me too. My fear is that we use a top 5 pick on Jason Kapono...
                          i am worried about bc being in the position where it looks like barnes is our only option. would much rather mkg or beal even lamb but i think lamb might take a while to fit in with the league.

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                          • #43
                            Originally I was hoping Drummond, Sullinger,PJ3 & maybe even Barnes as a freshman would push Davis down a couple draft slots into the 3-5 range. Unfortunately Davis has seperated himself as the clear #1, IMO.

                            I've turned my attention to seperating the class of wings

                            Barnes, Lamb, Miller, Beal, PJ3, Gilchrist

                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            -Lamb can create for himself, erratic defensively, struggles to get to the line, needs to add strength.

                            -Barnes excellent shooter, solid defender, good mechanics/fundamentals

                            -Miller's acl injury, worries me

                            -PJ3 has a high ceiling offensively, questionable defence/motor.

                            -Beal excellent shooter, high IQ, fundamentally sound defensively, 6'4" SG

                            -Gilchrist excellent defender/rebounder, feirce competitor/leader, lacks offensive polish. Does everything in his power to win.

                            Board

                            #1 MKG - potential, intangibles
                            #2 Barnes/Lamb
                            #3 PJ3 - potential, ceiling
                            #4 Lamb/Barnes
                            #5 Beal

                            MKG has outplayed Barnes both in highschool & college.

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                            • #44
                              Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                              i am worried about bc being in the position where it looks like barnes is our only option. would much rather mkg or beal even lamb but i think lamb might take a while to fit in with the league.

                              Lambs weaknesses: The most noticeable chink in Mr. Lamb’s arsenal revolves around his lack of bulk and strength Lamb is very thin and he has the narrow shoulders that will make adding significant weight harder than usual … His lack of girth and strength shows in certain aspects of his game too, mainly around the rim offensively and as a off-ball defender … Got to the free throw line at an abysmal rate, due to a lack of confidence in his strength, and settled for pull-ups and floaters much more often than he chose to challenge players who protected the rim in half-court situations … Lamb generally struggled finishing around the rim against contact, despite having more than adequate length and athleticism to do so … On D, Lamb’s lack of strength showed when getting through screens

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