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Time to Mock the Mockers (2012 Edition)

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  • #76
    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Name one Wildcat besides MKG and Davis that is more talented than our starters and main bench players.
    T-Jones and Lamb would probably be producing more than DeMar at year 3. Probably JJ, Kleiza and Forbes too.
    @sweatpantsjer

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    • #77
      And yeah, regarding Phokhorov, he certainly hasn't done anything that leads you to believe they know what they're doing. Especially the Wallace trade my god the Wallace trade.
      @sweatpantsjer

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      • #78
        NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
        Name one Wildcat besides MKG and Davis that is more talented than our starters and main bench players.
        It's not about pure talent, it's also about context.

        When I play against my 13 year old nephews, I am a perennial all-star. Then I go and play with some friends on a playground and I am worth nothing. My friends are obviously way better than my 13 year old teammates from the previous games, but they're also considerably worse than our opponents.

        Kentucky is so much better than the rest of the NCAA teams that it's hard to tell what each individual (except for Davis) will be worth when they face actual competition, and especially for MKG who will probably end up in a below average team.

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        • #79
          I am looking forward to the Davis/Robinson matchup tonight. At the very least, I am hoping it raises Robinson's value ahead of MKG's, to give the Raptors a greater chance at landing MKG! Plus, I'm not sold on Davis, so it will be interesting to see him going up against a legit PF with an NBA-ready body and post game.

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          • #80
            ceez wrote: View Post
            T-Jones and Lamb would probably be producing more than DeMar at year 3. Probably JJ, Kleiza and Forbes too.
            i'm talking now and i seriously doubt that.

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            • #81
              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
              I am looking forward to the Davis/Robinson matchup tonight. At the very least, I am hoping it raises Robinson's value ahead of MKG's, to give the Raptors a greater chance at landing MKG! Plus, I'm not sold on Davis, so it will be interesting to see him going up against a legit PF with an NBA-ready body and post game.
              Not real sure what people want from Davis. He's the most dominant college player in the game, he's productive, he's super-skilled and he works as hard as any player out there. He's capable of distorting the game. Not many players can do that. Is his lack of a back to the basket game really that big of a concern for a guy with his footwork and hands who, up until two years ago, was a 6'2 guard? Not sure what more he can possibly do to convince people.

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              • #82
                slaw wrote: View Post
                Not real sure what people want from Davis. He's the most dominant college player in the game, he's productive, he's super-skilled and he works as hard as any player out there. He's capable of distorting the game. Not many players can do that. Is his lack of a back to the basket game really that big of a concern for a guy with his footwork and hands who, up until two years ago, was a 6'2 guard? Not sure what more he can possibly do to convince people.
                His inside game is better than I had expected if that means anything. I never believed he had a back to the basket game one bit.

                +1 on all your points about AD. By far most skilled player in the Nation, and for a big man with guard skills is tremendous, for a big man that tall it's not hard to learn a basic back to the basket game.
                Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                • #83
                  RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                  His inside game is better than I had expected if that means anything. I never believed he had a back to the basket game one bit.

                  +1 on all your points about AD. By far most skilled player in the Nation, and for a big man with guard skills is tremendous, for a big man that tall it's not hard to learn a basic back to the basket game.
                  Playing the post is an art in and of itself. Compare Kevin McHale, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Tim Duncan to other 6'10"-7'1" players. If it was easy, everyone would be able to do it. It is not so they don't and it is evident by the extreme contracts given to big men on the hope they can produce (Diop? Haywood? Dampier? Dalembert? McIlvaine? etc. etc.).

                  I think Davis is going to learn the craft because he is an elite talent. He has shown considerable improvement from the start of this season and as everyone is aware he grew 8" in the last 2 years. One thing that I look forward to seeing Davis do in the NBA is expand his perimeter game on offense.

                  Hypothetically, and this is an old query, I wonder if Davis/Bargnani/Valanciunas could coexist in a starting lineup? JV is a straight up C. Davis and Bargnani though have elements to their game of SF's. For example, Bargnani has been guarding some SF's of late. He was on Carmelo Anthony and Wilson Chandler in recent games. Plus with Casey the master of zones, he might be able to make them work well together. Offensively, I have no doubt it could work - especially with two guards who can create and shoot with range.

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                  • #84
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    Playing the post is an art in and of itself. Compare Kevin McHale, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Tim Duncan to other 6'10"-7'1" players. If it was easy, everyone would be able to do it. It is not so they don't and it is evident by the extreme contracts given to big men on the hope they can produce (Diop? Haywood? Dampier? Dalembert? McIlvaine? etc. etc.).

                    I think Davis is going to learn the craft because he is an elite talent. He has shown considerable improvement from the start of this season and as everyone is aware he grew 8" in the last 2 years. One thing that I look forward to seeing Davis do in the NBA is expand his perimeter game on offense.

                    Hypothetically, and this is an old query, I wonder if Davis/Bargnani/Valanciunas could coexist in a starting lineup? JV is a straight up C. Davis and Bargnani though have elements to their game of SF's. For example, Bargnani has been guarding some SF's of late. He was on Carmelo Anthony and Wilson Chandler in recent games. Plus with Casey the master of zones, he might be able to make them work well together. Offensively, I have no doubt it could work - especially with two guards who can create and shoot with range.
                    Well I think it's a given with his talent level and basketball IQ. My bad for not including some specifics. Plus his back to the basket game is already fair.

                    I think a Davis/Bargnani/Valanciunas lineup could work. I like it, but I mean playing a big time talent in his original position is my philosophy. Not big on tweeners. (Unless you're Terrence Jones :P)
                    Last edited by ReubenJRD; Mon Apr 2nd, 2012, 11:16 PM.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                    • #85
                      Although he looks legit we are not getting Anthony Davis. He is going to Bobcats or Hornets.

                      All this hype on MKG and Robinson has pushed some of the original picks to go lower in the mock drafts. I say we take a plunge on Drummond. He might still be available at 4-5 where I expect us to be in the lottery given our luck. He is by no means NBA ready and is a 3-year project. With a right coach he can be another Dwight. You cannot go wrong with 6-11 of pure athleticism. We can start him with Val and give him very limited minutes. Ideally Bargs can be our 6th man with major minutes playing with either Drummond/Val. We get instant offensive production off the bench that way. It has been suggested in the earlier posts Bargnani should be traded. It makes sense to trade an asset on a big salary if we need some talent in our wings and to accommodate new salaries. But I would rather not trade him. It makes no sense to get rid of Ed Davis on his nominal contract. This leaves us with Kleiza, Demar, Amir and Jose. Mix and match them for someone like Eric gordon and a good wingman. Sign Nash. Package the two second rounders for late first round - Teague.

                      And can be stop touting Bargnani as a SF. First he was a center. now he is PF. next year a SF? He doesn't have the mobility or athleticism to play a wingman. Do not be fooled by his quick pump-fake step-over move on big men. He was put on Melo not because he can match him but as a hindrance. No one can stop melo anyway. Casey has figured using his size outside to prevent opposition's smooth offense is more useful and keeps him off the post where his defensive lapses costs us. How many times have we seen the other team taking advantage of Bargnani in a rotation? The other big men (Amir/Gray/Davis) who actually defend their basket are caught with their pants down and end up committing a foul or getting dunked on. We must play to his strengths or trade him. He is a RELATIVELY quick 7footer with no post game, no appetite for rebounds unless they fall on his face, excellent range and scoring ability. bring him off the bench and kill the opposition for gods sake.

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                      • #86
                        draftedraptor wrote: View Post
                        Although he looks legit we are not getting Anthony Davis. He is going to Bobcats or Hornets.

                        All this hype on MKG and Robinson has pushed some of the original picks to go lower in the mock drafts. I say we take a plunge on Drummond. He might still be available at 4-5 where I expect us to be in the lottery given our luck. He is by no means NBA ready and is a 3-year project. With a right coach he can be another Dwight. You cannot go wrong with 6-11 of pure athleticism. We can start him with Val and give him very limited minutes. Ideally Bargs can be our 6th man with major minutes playing with either Drummond/Val. We get instant offensive production off the bench that way. It has been suggested in the earlier posts Bargnani should be traded. It makes sense to trade an asset on a big salary if we need some talent in our wings and to accommodate new salaries. But I would rather not trade him. It makes no sense to get rid of Ed Davis on his nominal contract. This leaves us with Kleiza, Demar, Amir and Jose. Mix and match them for someone like Eric gordon and a good wingman. Sign Nash. Package the two second rounders for late first round - Teague.

                        And can be stop touting Bargnani as a SF. First he was a center. now he is PF. next year a SF? He doesn't have the mobility or athleticism to play a wingman. Do not be fooled by his quick pump-fake step-over move on big men. He was put on Melo not because he can match him but as a hindrance. No one can stop melo anyway. Casey has figured using his size outside to prevent opposition's smooth offense is more useful and keeps him off the post where his defensive lapses costs us. How many times have we seen the other team taking advantage of Bargnani in a rotation? The other big men (Amir/Gray/Davis) who actually defend their basket are caught with their pants down and end up committing a foul or getting dunked on. We must play to his strengths or trade him. He is a RELATIVELY quick 7footer with no post game, no appetite for rebounds unless they fall on his face, excellent range and scoring ability. bring him off the bench and kill the opposition for gods sake.
                        Oh, I'm sorry, was the lottery held yet? I must have missed the memo with Charlotte and New Orleans picking first. As of now Charlotte has the worst record and NO is 3rd worst. That leaves the odds still greater that neither receive the first pick (59.4%). Last year is a perfect example. With the 3rd worst record, Toronto picked 5th and with the worst record Cleveland's own pick was 4th.

                        250 combinations, 25.0% chance of receiving the #1 pick
                        199 combinations, 19.9% chance
                        156 combinations, 15.6% chance
                        119 combinations, 11.9% chance
                        88 combinations, 8.8% chance
                        63 combinations, 6.3% chance
                        43 combinations, 4.3% chance
                        28 combinations, 2.8% chance
                        17 combinations, 1.7% chance
                        11 combinations, 1.1% chance
                        8 combinations, 0.8% chance
                        7 combinations, 0.7% chance
                        6 combinations, 0.6% chance
                        5 combinations, 0.5% chance


                        Source

                        Who is touting Bargnani as a SF? Both Bargnani and Davis have perimeter skills on offense. Who ever the smaller person guarding the other goes inside, who ever is the bigger could go outside. Plus substitution patterns would be made that there are always 2 of JV/AD/AB on the floor at the same time. It is unconventional but, given Davis' game is far from complete, it is a possibility he will put his total game together (skills from pre growth spurt, skills post growth spurt). Defensively, zones and matchups could create opportunities for all three to play at once. I'm not sold it could work, but I'm not convinced it would not either.

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