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  • Are we really Rebuilding?

    This post from another Raptors fan site pretty much sums up my concerns

    http://www.raptorshq.com/2012/4/6/29...he-raps-future

    He pretty much says that this whole new "rebuilding' spin by Calengelo is just another way of building around Bargnani. We tried it once with CB4, and failed miserably, I have no idea why we are trying it again with an inferior player.

    Thoughts?
    "Stay steamy"

    - Kobe

  • #2
    I don't agree that they're building around Bargnani. They're about to bring in JV and another high lotto pick. That's to add to another top ten lotto pick in Demar DeRozan and a final lotto pick in Ed Davis. When they built around Bosh they went out and either signed or traded for a bunch of guys to complement him. They're not doing that with Andrea. They're asking him to change to fit team. The concept is the opposite of what they did with Bosh.

    One more thought. They really need an editor over at the site.

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    • #3
      Agree with Apollo, also i wouldn't be shocked if they traded Bargs before/during the draft.
      @sweatpantsjer

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      • #4
        ceez wrote: View Post
        Agree with Apollo, also i wouldn't be shocked if they traded Bargs before/during the draft.
        Although I hope it happens, I actually would be VERY surprised to see Bargs traded. In fact, I'd be utterly flabbergasted.

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        • #5
          My thought now is the same as my thought last year: they should have fired this management team when they had the chance. As I've repeatedly said, this management team has been trying to have it both ways: it wants to be competitive and be building for the future at the same time and it wants to do it on the cheap. Now, whether that is feasible or not others can judge but the results in Toronto have been terrible and an approach that, in theory, should be balanced has instead looked more half-assed. Too often Colangelo has operated with a Red Queen Theory mindset - running as fast as possible to stay in the same place.

          I know others here disagree but I see far too many similarities to 2006 to be comfortable with the "plan". I hear an organization talking about "building" and no longer "rebuilding" when the reality is that there wasn't a proper demolition in the first place. I see far too much emphasis on a 6th man as a focal point of the roster. I worry that too much is focused on what is in management's best interest and not necessarily what is in the long-term best interests of the organization. And when I hear they want to "hit the ground running" next season I have to wonder whether maybe they shouldn't learn to crawl first.

          Fans are right to be concerned about the direction of this organization. Of course, that's been the case for 10 years now, so not much has really changed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Colangelo has made some gigantic trades in his younger days. He wants to build a contender but he first needs to see to it that the team takes a step forward next year so that he secures an extension. This makes me feel that Bargnani gets one more season for sure unless the Raptors win the top pick... Who knows then. That's a winning situation no matter what.

            And I'm not saying he sacrifices the future for now but I don't think he's not going to be willing to field another team miserable team. Casey wants some vets. Colangelo says he might target a tough veteran big man. There is a potential influx of two top five lotto picks. This team is moving forward next year.

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            • #7
              I don't think that Colangelo is scheming in the background trying to come up with new ways of fooling the paying public. I honestly believe he's doing everything he knows how to "rebuild" the Raptors.

              But I also agree with the article in that not all players are being held accountable to the same degree. Yes, DeRozan and Bargnani have been benched at times, but they seem to have a much longer leash compared to other players.
              Last edited by Nilanka; Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:46 AM. Reason: type-o

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              • #8
                That is exactly my problem right now. All this talk about accountability at the start of the season has amounted to nothing. Pound the rock, culture change, accountability all sound like such nice buzz words but I am not sure if they're being implemented.
                "Stay steamy"

                - Kobe

                Comment


                • #9
                  hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                  That is exactly my problem right now. All this talk about accountability at the start of the season has amounted to nothing. Pound the rock, culture change, accountability all sound like such nice buzz words but I am not sure if they're being implemented.
                  Casey is a new coach and didn't even get a real camp to teach his guys a new system. Despite that he's improved their Points Against from 26th in 2010-11 to 14th in 2011-12. He's doing something right. I don't think it's fair to judge him on this season. He's had to get to know the players during the season as opposed to in the summer and during camp. Good coaches are good psychologists. He hasn't had enough time to really give effective treatment to his players so to speak. Until he learns who they all are as individuals it probably isn't wise to start letting it hit the fan. Different personalities respond to coaching in different ways. I don't think a coaching cure all exists, just like there isn't a magic pill that cures poor eye sight and a sprained ankle. I think different tactics need to be deployed based on the personality. For this fact alone you'll typically not see effective coaches treat everyone the same. That's my take on it anyway.

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                  • #10
                    hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                    That is exactly my problem right now. All this talk about accountability at the start of the season has amounted to nothing. Pound the rock, culture change, accountability all sound like such nice buzz words but I am not sure if they're being implemented.
                    I disagree.

                    Has Bargnani not been benched at times? Has he not been called out at times? Has he not actually played decent defense?

                    Has James Johnson not been shown who is boss?

                    Has DeMar not been called out?

                    Has Ed Davis not been called out?

                    Has Amir not seen him minutes cut for dogging it?

                    Has Gray not been yanked at times for ineffective play?

                    Did the Raptors not go to 14th in Opp PPG and 17th in defensive rating this season compared to 26th and 30th last year with pretty much the same roster?


                    Honestly I can't see how anyone could not see the changes in the Raptors on and off the court this year. There is a very fine line with professional athletes regarding how hard they can be pushed before they tune out. The fact the Raptors have 10 games left and are still competing in games and refusing to get blown out (minus a 24-0 run against OKC) shows incredible improvement from recent years past.

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                    • #11
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      I don't agree that they're building around Bargnani. They're about to bring in JV and another high lotto pick. That's to add to another top ten lotto pick in Demar DeRozan and a final lotto pick in Ed Davis. When they built around Bosh they went out and either signed or traded for a bunch of guys to complement him. They're not doing that with Andrea. They're asking him to change to fit team. The concept is the opposite of what they did with Bosh.

                      One more thought. They really need an editor over at the site.
                      "Bang on!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        I disagree.

                        Has Bargnani not been benched at times? Has he not been called out at times? Has he not actually played decent defense?

                        Has James Johnson not been shown who is boss?

                        Has DeMar not been called out?

                        Has Ed Davis not been called out?

                        Has Amir not seen him minutes cut for dogging it?

                        Has Gray not been yanked at times for ineffective play?

                        Did the Raptors not go to 14th in Opp PPG and 17th in defensive rating this season compared to 26th and 30th last year with pretty much the same roster?


                        Honestly I can't see how anyone could not see the changes in the Raptors on and off the court this year. There is a very fine line with professional athletes regarding how hard they can be pushed before they tune out. The fact the Raptors have 10 games left and are still competing in games and refusing to get blown out (minus a 24-0 run against OKC) shows incredible improvement from recent years past.
                        Right on and next season you'll no doubt see Casey hit full stride. What he's done this season given his unfavorable situation needs to be appreciated more. At first I was skeptical about him over the summer when they were talking in the media about hiring him but he's done everything to win me over.

                        Also when guys like Stan Van Gundy come out and make a point to give praise you know he's doing something right.

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                        • #13
                          hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                          That is exactly my problem right now. All this talk about accountability at the start of the season has amounted to nothing. Pound the rock, culture change, accountability all sound like such nice buzz words but I am not sure if they're being implemented.
                          As a boss (which Casey is), it's very difficult to change the culture before changing the personnel. Sometimes it's just the head that's rotten but more often than not the infection is everywhere. In this organization, it wasn't Jay Triano/Sam Mitchell that was the sole problem and replacing them only gets you so far. The easiest way to change an organization's culture is for the new boss to get rid of the losers, deadwood and hangers-on and replace them with people who already have the appropriate approach and attitude. My personal experience with this sort of thing is that trying to change the culture without replacing the personnel is doomed to failure and, in Raptorland, far too many people who are part of the problem remain. Starting with the guy in the high collar and all the way down to the guy wearing #7.

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                          • #14
                            slaw wrote: View Post
                            As a boss (which Casey is), it's very difficult to change the culture before changing the personnel. Sometimes it's just the head that's rotten but more often than not the infection is everywhere. In this organization, it wasn't Jay Triano/Sam Mitchell that was the sole problem and replacing them only gets you so far. The easiest way to change an organization's culture is for the new boss to get rid of the losers, deadwood and hangers-on and replace them with people who already have the appropriate approach and attitude. My personal experience with this sort of thing is that trying to change the culture without replacing the personnel is doomed to failure and, in Raptorland, far too many people who are part of the problem remain. Starting with the guy in the high collar and all the way down to the guy wearing #7.
                            Very difficult - yes.

                            Impossible - no.

                            Has he made a great start - absolutely.

                            Also Casey is a lead assistant on a championship winning team. McKechnie was involved with many championship teams in LA. Stefanski was the GM with the Nets when they went to the Finals twice. Colangelo made PHX a top team for many years. Many in the front office have been reassigned (JT and MG in particular).

                            With guaranteed contracts, personnel can hardly be changed at the drop of a hat. This rebuild is not even 2 years old. A proper rebuild does not happen over night. Even if one uses the Boston example they spent years acquiring assets before acquiring KG and Ray Allen.

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                            • #15
                              Colangelo and Casey have both mentioned adding a tough veteran in free agency. It sounds like they are looking to give Casey "his guy". A player who's going to maybe hold guys accountable in practice and during game time? The last time the Raptors had a couple of those(Oak and JYD) they almost went to the conference finals. Such a young team, which is about to get even younger, certainly needs some vet leadership which shares Casey's philosophies.

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