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Casey setting the bar for next season: Playoffs

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  • #61
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    "Really good" is a relative term.

    Are Bargnani and Calderon "really good" on a 23-win team devoid of talent? Yes.

    Are Bargnani and Calderon "really good" enough to lead us deep in the playoffs? Not likely.
    Why do they have to be the two players "leading"? On an improved Raptors team, I think both players could be significant contributors to a team capable of making and even succeeding in the playoffs. I get that they are the best players (or at least the offensive catalysts) on this current bad Raptors team, but I don't think that all potential improvements are going to be done to "build around" or "surround" those two players. Ideally, Bargnani would be a matchup nightmare as a #1b or #2 scoring option. Calderon is the pass-first floor general, but obviously is only going to be as good as the players finishing the passes he gives them.

    I would like to see a true #1 scorer added to this team; the type of player that demands double-teams and can put the team on his back, offensively. Slide Bargnani into the #2 scoring role and allow Calderon to run a much improved team (while also being a pretty strong #4/5 option himself), and suddenly I think you can answer "yes" to a question of "Are Bargnani and Calderon really good on a playoff caliber team?". This team needs to be improved through continued building, but that doesn't mean it needs to be built (or will be) around those two players.

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    • #62
      You're right. Bargnani and Calderon don't necessarily have to "lead" this team. But considering the rest of our current roster, they will be leading us for the foreseeable future, regardless of who we draft in a few months.

      But anyways, my prior post was responding to the idea that we do/don't have any "really good" players on this team. The answer depends on how you look at it.

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      • #63
        sleepz wrote: View Post
        This GM has no real long-term plan in place. It changes year to year.
        He hasn't had a plan since 2006 when he tried to re-create (as best he could) his Nash teams. Bosh as Amare, Ford/Caldy as Nash, surrounded by good shooters and solid all court players (Marion, Johnson, Barbosa/Parker, Garbo, Bargs, Kapono). That was his team. The team he wanted. Since 2008, it's been a mess.

        I'm fascinated by this year cause I have no idea what Colangelo is going to do next. If he wants to win now, then adding JV and another 20-year old as key pieces seems nuts. His best players are a PF in his prime and a PG nearing the end of his career. Asking Bargs and Calderon to carry two 20-year olds won't work (i.e. past two years). But, if you bring in a vets to win now, then what the hell do you do with JV and the 2012 pick? Play them 10 MPG? And where does all this leave your entering his prime shooting guard? If Derozan is a key piece, then where do you add more talent? The bench? The roster is such a mess that trying to fix it is going to be fascinating to watch.

        The one thing I will say to the positive is that the team has an identity for the first time since 2007-08. It's a grind it out, slow it down, smashmouth (foul you everytime in the lane), "make you play ugly" kinda team. Not really my drink of choice but at least it's better than lacking any identity at all which has been case for the last 3 years.

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        • #64
          slaw wrote: View Post
          He hasn't had a plan since 2006 when he tried to re-create (as best he could) his Nash teams. Bosh as Amare, Ford/Caldy as Nash, surrounded by good shooters and solid all court players (Marion, Johnson, Barbosa/Parker, Garbo, Bargs, Kapono). That was his team. The team he wanted. Since 2008, it's been a mess.

          I'm fascinated by this year cause I have no idea what Colangelo is going to do next. If he wants to win now, then adding JV and another 20-year old as key pieces seems nuts. His best players are a PF in his prime and a PG nearing the end of his career. Asking Bargs and Calderon to carry two 20-year olds won't work (i.e. past two years). But, if you bring in a vets to win now, then what the hell do you do with JV and the 2012 pick? Play them 10 MPG? And where does all this leave your entering his prime shooting guard? If Derozan is a key piece, then where do you add more talent? The bench? The roster is such a mess that trying to fix it is going to be fascinating to watch.

          The one thing I will say to the positive is that the team has an identity for the first time since 2007-08. It's a grind it out, slow it down, smashmouth (foul you everytime in the lane), "make you play ugly" kinda team. Not really my drink of choice but at least it's better than lacking any identity at all which has been case for the last 3 years.
          Is that because they're 20 year olds, or because they're 20 years olds who aren't very good?

          I'm hoping that JV plus our 2012 draft pick will have a bigger impact than what DeRozan and Davis provided in their rookie years.

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          • #65
            slaw wrote: View Post
            ...If he wants to win now, then adding JV and another 20-year old as key pieces seems nuts. ...
            Unless JV and another 20-year old are improvements over existing players, either starting or coming off the bench. If they are improvements, then adding one quality free agent and one quality vet to the core of this team will, assuming AB and JC don't suffer 40 missed games due to injuries but hover around to 4-8 mark, probably make the plyoffs. They were obvioulsy a threat to get there with the current roster.

            As has been pointed out previously, in other threads, the Raps needed a full training camp more than most teams in the conference because of not only a new coach, but also a complete shift in emphasis in how the games are played. IN addition, the fact that the Raps had one of the lower average ages in the conference also meant that the off-season contact with team coaching and training staff was more important for player development.

            A full camp, normal off-season, JV + rookie + Free Agent acquisition + 1 vet plus existing core = playoffs, or "win now."

            JV + rookie + management of cap space + trades + draft next year + another year of Casey = continued improvement.

            Time to relax and enjoy the Raptors for the next 3-4 years.

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            • #66
              Casey can start rehearsing these lines again.

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              • #67
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                Casey can start rehearsing these lines again.
                He can rehearse all he wants. I don't think having Gay and Demar will gel with his coaching philosophy. Something has to go and it will be Casey. I'd be shocked if he survives the first 20 games of next year.
                “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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                • #68
                  We should try Doug Collins if he walks out of Philly

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                  • #69
                    Nate McMillan.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                    • #70
                      /casey will be fine, his options are very limited guys.... very very limited. and all of you will flip flop when the team wins again, and we are talking playoffs next season.

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                      • #71
                        Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                        /casey will be fine, his options are very limited guys.... very very limited. and all of you will flip flop when the team wins again, and we are talking playoffs next season.
                        Yep pretty much. When you get inconsistent performance from pretty much the whole lineup (maybe except Amir?), I can't imagine how you can manage a proper rotation. Maybe the inconsistent play is on the coach too, who knows.

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