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  • #16
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    "big" is about the player, not about the money. And Ray Allen is a big splash for the type of move, or am I wrong? Regardless of strategy we should have enough money to throw at him when FA starts. If we make a trade, we should have our exceptions to spend(unless BC makes shitty trades that don't fully eat our cap space before July 1), and if we don't, we'll have cash stright out...I don't know what you're not seeing....or that I'm not seeing to make it seem confusing

    In the bold section, you are specifically speaking of Ray Allen right?

    What happens if Ray Ray doesn't want to come here? That is the risk with free agency. The Raptors are not the masters of their own destiny.

    Also, what you spoke of in the bold section is exactly my point. You only get to use the cap space on free agency if you renounce the exceptions. If you use the cap space via trade prior to July 1st then you get to use the exceptions. They are 2 separate outcomes - you have to make a choice hence the either, or scenario laid out.

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    • #17
      We'll get a clearer picture of 'how to hit the ground running' after May 30.

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      • #18
        I guess that depends on where we are running to. The Playoffs? Or the Finals? One is a much longer race.

        I think Colangelo should more or less stand pat this off season. We'll have as many as 4 new young players to evaluate next year. Also, the player options for DeRozan and J Johnson come due at the end of next year, and Jose Calderon will be off the books. That leaves 3 of our current 5 starters in flux. The year after next should be the splash year.

        We do need to fill out this roster with some vets though. So try and find the David West type deals that are out there, and hang on to any cap space that can't be used effectively. My guess is the salary landscape in the NBA will change enough that some teams will be caught off guard as they are still working within the plans they formulated before the lockout. The Raptors need to take advantage of that.

        Next year will be exciting no matter what. That should be enough for this fan base.

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        • #19
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          In the bold section, you are specifically speaking of Ray Allen right?

          What happens if Ray Ray doesn't want to come here? That is the risk with free agency. The Raptors are not the masters of their own destiny.

          Also, what you spoke of in the bold section is exactly my point. You only get to use the cap space on free agency if you renounce the exceptions. If you use the cap space via trade prior to July 1st then you get to use the exceptions. They are 2 separate outcomes - you have to make a choice hence the either, or scenario laid out.
          In this case about Ray, but could be about that type of acquisition in general. Given our needs, he fits in regardless of what other moves we make...and yes, he may not want to come here, but that's always a risk, but not a big risk if you're just counting on using exceptions. I think really the goal would be to have a list of players who fit regardless of choice #1 or #2. I admit it's hard to think of a list like that, but there are some names out there even if they are unlikely, or perhaps not the best fit (Jamison, Hill, Stevenson...).

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          • #20
            Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
            I guess that depends on where we are running to. The Playoffs? Or the Finals? One is a much longer race.

            I think Colangelo should more or less stand pat this off season. We'll have as many as 4 new young players to evaluate next year. Also, the player options for DeRozan and J Johnson come due at the end of next year, and Jose Calderon will be off the books. That leaves 3 of our current 5 starters in flux. The year after next should be the splash year.
            The Raptors have $25M in contracts for 2013-14 as of now. Tack on another $6M for JV and 2012 pick and that is $31M. Add whatever players are signed this year - lets even assume that things are pretty tame with just $10M given out in contracts that extend beyond next season. That takes the Raptors to $41M.

            $41M leaves the Raptors with about $17M in cap space. But we forgot about DD and JJ. Unless they walk for nothing, add the qualifying offers their qualifying offers which total $8.5M and the Raptors are in the same position as this year - enough cap space to sign a piece. If you renounce DD and JJ (i.e. get nothing for them if they go elsewhere and lose Bird Rights if they stay which means they eat cap space) then you could make a big splash.

            Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
            We do need to fill out this roster with some vets though. So try and find the David West type deals that are out there, and hang on to any cap space that can't be used effectively. My guess is the salary landscape in the NBA will change enough that some teams will be caught off guard as they are still working within the plans they formulated before the lockout. The Raptors need to take advantage of that.
            David West was a great deal for Indiana but they had a lot of other pieces already in place with 3-4 years experience. I think we can all agree that the Raptors have few pieces in place and fewer still with experience who are considered an impact player.

            Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
            Next year will be exciting no matter what. That should be enough for this fan base.
            I find this interesting given how many posters feel the franchise is doomed and should expect more.

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            • #21
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              In this case about Ray, but could be about that type of acquisition in general. Given our needs, he fits in regardless of what other moves we make...and yes, he may not want to come here, but that's always a risk, but not a big risk if you're just counting on using exceptions. I think really the goal would be to have a list of players who fit regardless of choice #1 or #2. I admit it's hard to think of a list like that, but there are some names out there even if they are unlikely, or perhaps not the best fit (Jamison, Hill, Stevenson...).
              That is the point though - to make use of the exceptions the Raptors are going to have to add salary prior to July 1st.

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              • #22
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                That is the point though - to make use of the exceptions the Raptors are going to have to add salary prior to July 1st.
                Yeah, but that's also the strangeness of your thread....If the Raps don't make a move before July 1st out of choice, then the team is just stupid. They have to at least try. What kind of management doesn't act when they have more flexibility as opposed to less? That being said, my point was that regardless, they will have money for such signings. And in fact, if we fail to make a splash before FA, I would rather sign 2-3 players like Allen, Stevenson, etc, than add one guy for 8-10 million who is not a true star. For instance, adding Batum, and only Batum, at 8-10 million a year for 4 years might be a disaster if we do it after July 1st...On the flip side, adding Batum for that before the date and filling up our space means we can add such role players as well. I think the worst case is likely to be the one where July 1st comes and we spend on one player.

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                • #23
                  I voted for option #2, as I see three scenarios that play to the Raptors advantage when going this route:

                  1) add salary that another team wants to dump
                  - An example of this would be adding the bad contract of a player like Okafor from New Orleans, while also gaining an additional lottery pick as a 'thank you', similar to how Cleveland got the Clippers' pick last year for taking on Baron Davis' contract. The Raps could trade Amir for Okafor, and could also include any/all of JJ, Forbes, 2nd round picks (#38 & #56) in the deal.

                  2) trade down/out of the draft
                  - If the Raps are stuck with the #8-11 pick in the draft and aren't confident enough to draft a player who will be on the board in that slot, they could get a jump on other teams in similar position, by offering up their pick (potentially along with other assets too) for a legit player who's under contract with another team, before other teams have the cap space to do so and start a bidding war.

                  3) TPE is useless in scenario #1
                  - Another reason to like scenario #2 is that once July 1st rolls around and the Raps fall under the salary cap, the TPE acquired in the Barbosa trade is effectively lost. The raps can only use it (up until March 2013) if they are at/above (and stay at/above) the salary cap - taking on salary prior to July 1st would keep the TPE in play throughout the offseason.

                  The only downside to option #2 is that it effectively takes players like Batum, Mayo, Nash and Dragic out of the conversation, unless salary cap space is freed up by other means, or the Raps talk to team ahead of July 1st and work out a S&T ahead of time.
                  Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed May 2, 2012, 11:43 AM.

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                  • #24
                    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                    Yeah, but that's also the strangeness of your thread....If the Raps don't make a move before July 1st out of choice, then the team is just stupid. They have to at least try. What kind of management doesn't act when they have more flexibility as opposed to less? That being said, my point was that regardless, they will have money for such signings. And in fact, if we fail to make a splash before FA, I would rather sign 2-3 players like Allen, Stevenson, etc, than add one guy for 8-10 million who is not a true star. For instance, adding Batum, and only Batum, at 8-10 million a year for 4 years might be a disaster if we do it after July 1st...On the flip side, adding Batum for that before the date and filling up our space means we can add such role players as well. I think the worst case is likely to be the one where July 1st comes and we spend on one player.

                    That can't be done though. You can only add a free agent, like Batum, after July 1st.

                    Simply put, this thread is about making the choice to use money below the soft salary cap on free agency after July 1st or a trade before July 1st.

                    How the money below the salary cap is spent is the issue here. You can use it via trade or free agency - but not both.

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                    • #25
                      @Matt52

                      Daps for doing so much heavy lifting on this thread. What you said about cap space is true. I never said we would have more cap space. All I said was that after next year we will have a way better idea of what we have given the profile of several contracts and the 2 or more incoming rookies. Also, one full year of Casey coaching this team can't be underestimated. If Casey really is the best asset this team has, then it also doesn't hurt to see what he can do with these young players.

                      And I still think some teams will get a rude awakening next year when it comes to the post-lockout salary situation.

                      Is there a real chance of us signing Batum next year??? I mean he was the Blazers go-to perimeter guy at the end of this past season. They're not gonna let him go.

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                      • #26
                        I foresee a lot of sign and trades to do the majority of upgrading
                        I foresee ONE major signing
                        and using the TPE, Mid Level Mini Mid Level and Bi Annual to fill out roster spots
                        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                        • #27
                          Gorlitzer wrote: View Post
                          @Matt52

                          Daps for doing so much heavy lifting on this thread. What you said about cap space is true. I never said we would have more cap space. All I said was that after next year we will have a way better idea of what we have given the profile of several contracts and the 2 or more incoming rookies. Also, one full year of Casey coaching this team can't be underestimated. If Casey really is the best asset this team has, then it also doesn't hurt to see what he can do with these young players.

                          And I still think some teams will get a rude awakening next year when it comes to the post-lockout salary situation.

                          Is there a real chance of us signing Batum next year??? I mean he was the Blazers go-to perimeter guy at the end of this past season. They're not gonna let him go.
                          Sorry for misunderstanding on thinking we had more cap space.

                          I agree with the idea of more evaluation for players currently under contract but i don't think staying status quo is going to be the best way to go. If the goal is to build a deep playoff team or championship team, much of the flexibility to add talent will be gone by July 1st, in my opinion. If the evaluation comes back negative, where do the Raptors go from there?

                          I really like the idea of adding young veterans (25-28 year old... although some 23/24 year olds would also fit the bill). If they are a young veteran, most likely they are proven. They might not be superstars but at least they have value for future trades - such as getting a star player.

                          I definitely agree with a couple of teams getting a rude awakening. However, the majority of the league are under the luxury tax anyways and some those teams that were well beyond it (like LAL and DAL) have already begun getting ready for the new reality.

                          I agree with you on Batum. That is why I think (and am hoping) the Raptors take on some salary via trade in one way or another before July 1st. I don't think the Raptors are going to add a significant piece via free agency outside of an exception.

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                          • #28
                            thead wrote: View Post
                            I foresee a lot of sign and trades to do the majority of upgrading
                            I foresee ONE major signing
                            and using the TPE, Mid Level Mini Mid Level and Bi Annual to fill out roster spots
                            Teh Raptors are not going to have a major signing without cap space.

                            The Raptors are not going to have exceptions with cap space.

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                            • #29
                              I would personally go #2.. but some how I think Bryan might go #1. I think Bryan wants to hit a home run - similar to what he tried to do with Turk. He has been itching for a proper off season and he has money to play with. I think he's going to try and net a major free agent like Nash or Batum and its going to hurt their flexibility of getting future assets since I don't think they have a lot of decent trade assets (which included this draft pick).

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                              • #30
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                That can't be done though. You can only add a free agent, like Batum, after July 1st.

                                Simply put, this thread is about making the choice to use money below the soft salary cap on free agency after July 1st or a trade before July 1st.

                                How the money below the salary cap is spent is the issue here. You can use it via trade or free agency - but not both.
                                Ok, using the same player for both examples was a mistake on my part, so lets say Luol Deng(just for argument's sake). My point is just at the end, like I said. The worst case to me, is spending a lot on one guy after July 1st. The ideal is filling up that space with one or two good-great players, and using exceptions. All I think of with the space we'd have after July 1st is it sets up nicely for BC to make another stupid Hedo type offer.
                                And as CalgaryRapsFan says, and the reason I quoted you, is do you know what the rules are on sign and trades of upcoming restricted FAs? Can we discuss Batum with Portland to the extent of discussing figures, before July 1st? If we can, then we can attempt to acquire pretty much anybody except unrestricted FAs before July 1st, can we not?
                                Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed May 2, 2012, 02:48 PM.

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