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"Casey: Valanciunas' Worst Case Scenaro Is Noah" & "Koreen: Too much hype?"

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  • #16
    joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Joakim put up 6pts, 5rpg and a block as a rookie.
    Chandler put up 6pts, 5rpg and just over a block as a rookie.

    I'm not sure comparing Jonas to either of those guys is putting undue pressure on him.
    Matching their rookie campaigns should be easy.

    However, I bet if he "only" puts up 6 and 6, I imagine we'll get some people calling for his head.
    I agree, this is not a lot of pressure. Frankly I think he can be better than either one given his higher offensive potential. Shit, his FT shooting alone should make a big difference.

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    • #17
      NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
      i could see him almost posting up a double double in his rookie season.
      He would be in select company considering only 8 guys did that this year in the entire league.

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      • #18
        From what I've seen/heard he has two important qualities that are intrinsic that will be respected in the NBA and most importantly with the Raptors management, coaches teammates and fans. The ability to step out of his shoes and realisticaly look at his development (maturity & inteligence) "I'm not ready for the NBA" and (part of this) is to enjoy himself and have a great presence and future influence on the team.

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        • #19
          The Jonas Valanciunas hype machine can’t stop and won’t stop

          Eric Koreen May 2, 2012 – 1:02 PM ET | Last Updated: May 2, 2012 1:25 PM

          The fifth pick in the 2011 NBA Draft, who turns 20 on Sunday, is the greatest hope for a long-term turnaround for the Toronto Raptors

          It is possible that expectations might be getting a little out of hand for the arrival of Jonas Valanciunas.

          The fifth pick in the 2011 NBA Draft, who turns 20 on Sunday, is the greatest hope for a long-term turnaround for the Toronto Raptors. After sitting through rather hopeless seasons of 22 and 23 wins, everybody associated with the team is setting the bar at playoff berth next year. The arrival of Valanciunas is supposed to be a key reason why.

          A problem: Rookies rarely blossom right away, especially rookie big men. (Some exceptions, to varying degrees: Tim Duncan, Amar’e Stoudemire and Pau Gasol.) Beyond Gasol, it has proven very difficult for European big men to get acclimated immediately to the NBA game, especially if they are expected to patrol the paint instead of operating on the perimeter.

          And yet, the Raptors continue to hype up Valanciunas. For one, there is the half-hour television special on Valanciunas that is on a virtual loop on team-owned NBA TV Canada. As well, there are the quotes that continue to pile up in praise of the Lithuanian centre.

          • “I don’t care if the guy is from outer space, because you can’t find a lot of big guys that can run the floor, are athletic with great hands, dives down the lane, finishes at the rim.” – Dwane Casey, June 23, 2011

          • “This pick is going to be one where people look back and say that was the right guy.” – Bryan Colangelo, June 23, 2011

          • “Clearly there were players on the board that would have yielded instant gratification, or more potential instant gratification. But this is about a long-term pick, and it clearly is the right long-term pick.” –Colangelo, December 2011

          • “To have a 7-footer like that with that kind of personality is unusual. Usually 7-footers and big men are reserved. But this kid shows a lot of energy, is a great leader on the court. He plays with a lot of enthusiasm.” – Ed Stefanski, December 2011

          • “Valanciunas is a different story. I truly believe his experience is going to have him a step ahead of any rookie we bring in. I really think he’s played against men in Europe. He’s going to be a step ahead.” –Casey, April 27, 2012

          • “I saw him last summer with the Lithuanian national team and the Euro games in the championships — big-time energy, runs the floor, rebounds. At the worst, we’re getting a Joakim Noah from Chicago — a guy who mans the middle, challenged a little bit in terms of scoring in the paint but as far as of pick-and-rolling to the basket, he has great hands to roll and finish.” –Casey on Prime Time Sports, April 30, 2012

          In fairness, the Raptors have been trying to counter the praise with some realism.

          “Young players take time to figure it all out, what the nuances of the NBA are all about,” Colangelo said last week. “He’ll be fine. But we’re not going to force feed anything. I’m not going to tell coach he’s got to play him so many minutes, not going to say he’s got to start.”

          If and when Valanciunas struggles to start his career, the Raptors are going to have to double down on such reminders. And if the Raptors complain about outsized expectations, do not forget to have a good, long laugh.


          http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...and-wont-stop/
          I have to agree. I expect big things from him but in my opinion a 20 year old rookie when the season starts next year who gives you 6-7 points and 6-7 rebounds is a big deal. I have a feeling many will be disappointed with anything less than 15 points and 10 rebounds.

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          • #20
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            I have to agree. I expect big things from him but in my opinion a 20 year old rookie when the season starts next year who gives you 6-7 points and 6-7 rebounds is a big deal. I have a feeling many will be disappointed with anything less than 15 points and 10 rebounds.
            Two points:

            In defense of Casey's Noah comment, his point was that the worst case scenario for JV, in his prime, would be Noah. A lot of people will take it to mean Casey thinks JV will be Noah in his rookie year. This is patently stupid and ridiculous on its face but, of course, when JV doesn't put up Shaq-like numbers in year one, you'll have people throwing this quote around like morons.

            Still, as Koreen notes, the Raps have no one but themselves to blame for the outsized expectations. Same thing happened when they drafted Derozan and Colangelo was comparing him to Vince Carter and Air Canada 2 and all that nonsense. I realize they need to sell tickets and generate interest but enough is enough. Let's stop this nonsense at least until he plays a single minute....

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            • #21
              slaw wrote: View Post
              Two points:

              In defense of Casey's Noah comment, his point was that the worst case scenario for JV, in his prime, would be Noah. A lot of people will take it to mean Casey thinks JV will be Noah in his rookie year. This is patently stupid and ridiculous on its face but, of course, when JV doesn't put up Shaq-like numbers in year one, you'll have people throwing this quote around like morons.

              Still, as Koreen notes, the Raps have no one but themselves to blame for the outsized expectations. Same thing happened when they drafted Derozan and Colangelo was comparing him to Vince Carter and Air Canada 2 and all that nonsense. I realize they need to sell tickets and generate interest but enough is enough. Let's stop this nonsense at least until he plays a single minute....
              There is a definite balance between creating excitement for fans/instilling confidence in your players and creating unrealistic expectations for your fans/unreachable goals for your players.

              BC has definitely not mastered that balance.

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              • #22
                in his prime I see 14 - 15pts 9 - 12 boards 2 - 3 blocks

                sort of a Dikembe Olajuwon hybrid
                For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                • #23
                  1. Kemba is a nice player and will be good down the road. That bobcat team was historically bad with no veteran talent on it. Take it easy on Kemba.

                  2. I really don't expect much out of big Val next year outside of pretty much always being in foul trouble and a lot of goaltending penalties. That said, can't wait to have him here.

                  3. Just started following Koreen on twitter and dude is awesome. He's hilarious. The way he constantly goads Chisholm kills me.
                  @sweatpantsjer

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                  • #24
                    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    Makes me wonder where all the Ed O'Bannan... oops, I mean Kemba Walker fans are?!
                    Right here. Kemba Walker had a really solid season. What's the problem with Walker? He showed nothing but promise. His shooting wasn't good but that was his flag heading in so no surprise.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                      Joakim put up 6pts, 5rpg and a block as a rookie.
                      Chandler put up 6pts, 5rpg and just over a block as a rookie.

                      I'm not sure comparing Jonas to either of those guys is putting undue pressure on him.
                      Matching their rookie campaigns should be easy.

                      However, I bet if he "only" puts up 6 and 6, I imagine we'll get some people calling for his head.
                      People aren't going to associate him with 6 and 6. They're going to hear Noah and then 10 and 10. Casey didn't say Noah's rookie season. He said Noah. I think most imaginations will gravitate to 10 and 10.

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                      • #26
                        ceez wrote: View Post
                        1. Kemba is a nice player and will be good down the road. That bobcat team was historically bad with no veteran talent on it. Take it easy on Kemba.

                        2. I really don't expect much out of big Val next year outside of pretty much always being in foul trouble and a lot of goaltending penalties. That said, can't wait to have him here.

                        3. Just started following Koreen on twitter and dude is awesome. He's hilarious. The way he constantly goads Chisholm kills me.
                        1. agree 100%

                        2. i think his goals will be set at being able to stay on the floor and i hope he can achieve them but i expect him to be able to rebound well from the get go.

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                        • #27
                          thead wrote: View Post
                          in his prime I see 14 - 15pts 9 - 12 boards 2 - 3 blocks

                          sort of a Dikembe Olajuwon hybrid
                          With a 90% FT rate, the prime version of JV will be closer to 20pts.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I'm concerned about projecting that kind of offensive numbers JV can put up, he is raw offensively, and although having a great FT% means I'm optimistic that he'll be able to generate a mid range jay, saying he's going to be closer to 20 pts is a stretch, besides, I want his impact to be more on the defensive side of the ball, I won't complain about any offensive production, but my expectations are mostly defense based.
                            Last edited by ezz_bee; Thu May 3, 2012, 06:34 AM.
                            "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                            "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                            "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                            • #29
                              If numbers are being thrown around I would love to see 10 points, 7 boards, 1.5 blocks and 50+% FG% (assuming he's playing 25+ minutes a game). Hefty goal to reach but the kid works so hard and is incredibly efficient so I think it's achievable as long as the minutes are there and he continues to improve.

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                              • #30
                                I think we should really get a grip on our expectations for the Lithuanian. There are some serious misconceptions out there. I have lived in Europe for the past several years and have seen my share of Rytas games and Lietuva national games. These things are true, and must all be qualified with the word 'yet':

                                Valanciunas is not a strong post defender. He routinely gets scorched by his check in one on one situations. His weak-side D is actually better thanks to his hustle, but even then is instincts are only decent.

                                He is not an above average rebounder.

                                He needs someone else to create offense for him in the pick and roll.

                                He does not have a great vertical.

                                He has a high foul rate in tougher matchups.

                                He is also inconsistent. He'll put up big numbers one game and nearly vanish the next.

                                Okay... all of these are negatives. But when I see people writing about how he'll be our defensive anchor and a rebounding machine, ... they just don't have the whole story.

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