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Can you win a championship with Bargnani?

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  • Hugmenot
    replied
    ceez wrote: View Post
    So at the end of the day we all agree that Bargs is a good dude but needs to be surrounded with WAY better talent before championships can be chased, right?
    No, we do not all agree.

    ceez wrote: View Post
    So now the question is, should BC go ahead with his "hit the ground running" plan (big Val + draft pick + vets) and aim for the playoffs or should we roll with what we have and keep building the youth core?
    Yay, we live in an universe where the choice must be between A and B, and nothing else!

    I am just tired of these loaded questions.

    ceez wrote: View Post
    Watching teams like the Nuggets and Utah in the playoffs make me think maybe we should keep going youth. Those teams are going to be ELITE in a couple years when their young guys develop. I know it'll drive Casey insane but it seems the natural way to build a contender. Just ask the thunder. I'm sure if you asked Durant how he felt the first few years he was in the league he'd just laugh, but wouldn't hesitate to tell you he appreciates the route now.

    Discuss.
    I don't see the Nuggets and Jazz becoming elite with their current roster. Good teams who will have a middle seed in the playoff, sure, but also teams who will be longshot at the title.

    Leave a comment:


  • BallaBalla
    replied
    ceez wrote: View Post
    So at the end of the day we all agree that Bargs is a good dude but needs to be surrounded with WAY better talent before championships can be chased, right?

    So now the question is, should BC go ahead with his "hit the ground running" plan (big Val + draft pick + vets) and aim for the playoffs or should we roll with what we have and keep building the youth core?

    Watching teams like the Nuggets and Utah in the playoffs make me think maybe we should keep going youth. Those teams are going to be ELITE in a couple years when their young guys develop. I know it'll drive Casey insane but it seems the natural way to build a contender. Just ask the thunder. I'm sure if you asked Durant how he felt the first few years he was in the league he'd just laugh, but wouldn't hesitate to tell you he appreciates the route now.

    Discuss.
    I don't really agree with that. At the end of the day, only a handful of teams have ever won a championship, and only slightly more have made the finals. The same teams make it every year, with some outliers in certain decades, because they get the best guys available.

    Denver or Utah (more likely utah) will be MAYBE a 3 seed if they can keep everyone together, and then lose in the conference finals. If we want to win a championship, we should do it the same way it is done most years, and that's bringing in proven guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    Thats why i find it pointless to get rid of up and coming players like demar who still have a chance to improve. Just roll with the guys we have, add the 2 picks a couple decent FA and were good. BC has always talked of "Organic growth" so i don't think he'll move any of our recent picks

    Leave a comment:


  • ceez
    replied
    So at the end of the day we all agree that Bargs is a good dude but needs to be surrounded with WAY better talent before championships can be chased, right?

    So now the question is, should BC go ahead with his "hit the ground running" plan (big Val + draft pick + vets) and aim for the playoffs or should we roll with what we have and keep building the youth core?

    Watching teams like the Nuggets and Utah in the playoffs make me think maybe we should keep going youth. Those teams are going to be ELITE in a couple years when their young guys develop. I know it'll drive Casey insane but it seems the natural way to build a contender. Just ask the thunder. I'm sure if you asked Durant how he felt the first few years he was in the league he'd just laugh, but wouldn't hesitate to tell you he appreciates the route now.

    Discuss.

    Leave a comment:


  • sleepz
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    If you put him out there with Big Ben, Prince, Rip and Billups in their prime year you don't think they would have a legit shot at winning it all? I think they would. In such a scenario Bargnani would be the most talented scorer and so he'd be their go to guy on offense.
    Not likely no.

    I only say that because I think the example of that Piston team was a sum of parts greater than the individuals. Bargnani doesn't bring to that team what Wallace did. Would they still be a good team with Andrea.....of course they would, but I don't think he could have played Rasheed's role as well as Rasheed played it.

    Leave a comment:


  • RNsteve
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Most likely not.

    LeBron couldn't do it as THE dude.

    Kobe couldn't make the playoffs in his PRIME following Shaq's departure.

    Took Dirk a long time and a lot of veteran help.

    Dwight Howard is unable to do it.

    Pierce/KG/Allen couldn't do it as THE dude.

    A lot of factors go in to winning and of 30 teams, only one will win each season.

    Exactly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    Bendit wrote: View Post
    Haha. Is that like being just a bit pregnant?

    I am of course in the pro conspiracy camp. There is just too much pointing at that happening. Briefly, they admit discussing the possibility of playing together at the Olympics. They all had the same agency/Leon Rose representation. All 3 went for the opt out option after 3 years of their extension deal (at the same time). Riley gutted the Heat over a two year period to accomodate 3 max deals (well nearly max deals).
    I'm sure those kind of discussions happen all the time between players during all-star weekend. As for opt-outs, one could argue that the expiring CBA had more to do with it. And yes, Riley did gut the roster in preparation for the summer of 2010, but so did other teams. Riley just did a better job of it (thanks to Colangelo). There were talks of Chicago and New York aiming for multiple max players too.

    Do I believe all 3 guys knew Miami was their destination months in advance? No.

    Days/weeks in advance, but well after the season ended? Yes (which should help explain the degree of premeditation I mentioned above ).

    Leave a comment:


  • Bendit
    replied
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure if LeBron would've chosen Miami if the Wade-Bosh tandem didn't already exist.

    2 years after the fact, we all remember the situation as 3 star players "colluding" to form a super team. But I honestly don't think it was that premeditated.


    Haha. Is that like being just a bit pregnant?

    I am of course in the pro conspiracy camp. There is just too much pointing at that happening. Briefly, they admit discussing the possibility of playing together at the Olympics. They all had the same agency/Leon Rose representation. All 3 went for the opt out option after 3 years of their extension deal (at the same time). Riley gutted the Heat over a two year period to accomodate 3 max deals (well nearly max deals).

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Man, I love listening to your insight and I mean no disrespect, but if you think that Bargnani could have the same impact Rasheed Wallace had on the Pistons you iz loco!
    Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    No way the Pistons would have been "The Pistons" with Bargs on the floor.
    Where did I say that? Check that. I said "If you put him out there with Big Ben, Prince, Rip and Billups in their prime year you don't think they would have a legit shot at winning it all?" I didn't say they would be as good with Bargnani replaced for Sheed.


    Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    'Sheed brought hard nosed defence, attitude along with the ability to stretch the floor and score in the post.
    I agree.

    Leave a comment:


  • BallaBalla
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Isn't this currently what is going on?
    I have no idea...is it? I didn't mean that comment to be general, but more specific i.e. we should understand the types of players that will fit with an inside out 4 because we went through it with Bosh. But then BC goes ahead and signs Klieza and Amir so you never know with him

    Leave a comment:


  • BallaBalla
    replied
    joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    James Posey?! Haha Going way back.
    You seriously couldn't think of a better 6th man than him??
    hahaha no idea why he popped into my head....but there you go

    Leave a comment:


  • Joey
    replied
    BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    and one player who can come off the bench and make a difference ala james posey or lamar odom (in his good days). If we do that we will be a really good team.
    James Posey?! Haha Going way back.
    You seriously couldn't think of a better 6th man than him??

    Leave a comment:


  • Mediumcore
    replied
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    If you put him out there with Big Ben, Prince, Rip and Billups in their prime year you don't think they would have a legit shot at winning it all? I think they would. In such a scenario Bargnani would be the most talented scorer and so he'd be their go to guy on offense.
    Man, I love listening to your insight and I mean no disrespect, but if you think that Bargnani could have the same impact Rasheed Wallace had on the Pistons you iz loco! 'Sheed brought hard nosed defence, attitude along with the ability to stretch the floor and score in the post. No way the Pistons would have been "The Pistons" with Bargs on the floor. It's like picking out picking out an accountant from a line up of serial killers. How many tech's has Bargs received in his entire career even?

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    hotfuzz wrote: View Post
    Very interesting thought. I wonder as well what would have happened if they would have traded for bargnani instead of bosh and then singned or traded for a hard nosed, rebounding machine C like a chandler.
    They could have used AB to come off the bench and be an instant and we all know heat's bench was shit last year.
    Another thing miami struggled with last year was height (or lack thereof). AB could have been able to help with it, even though there is not much height difference between bosh and AB, but signing AB would have allowed them to go after a better C than anthony (who was undersized).
    I'm not sure if LeBron would've chosen Miami if the Wade-Bosh tandem didn't already exist.

    2 years after the fact, we all remember the situation as 3 star players "colluding" to form a super team. But I honestly don't think it was that premeditated.

    Leave a comment:


  • hotfuzz
    replied
    Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Kind of odd to think that a team couldn't win a ring with Bargnani on it - what if the HEAT traded Bosh for Bargnani, can you see the HEAT winning a ring with Bargnani? For sure.
    Very interesting thought. I wonder as well what would have happened if they would have traded for bargnani instead of bosh and then signed or traded for a hard nosed, rebounding machine C like a chandler.
    They could have used AB to come off the bench and be an instant scoring threat and we all know heat's bench was shit last year.
    Another thing miami struggled with last year was height (or lack thereof). AB could have been able to help with it, even though there is not much height difference between bosh and AB, but signing AB would have allowed them to go after a better C than anthony (who was undersized).
    Last edited by hotfuzz; Thu May 10, 2012, 12:37 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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