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  • #31
    Holy Craptors wrote: View Post
    He thinks we should cheer him for what he did for us, rather than cheer for him because of who he is.
    You think the Bulls fans only liked MJ for who he is??
    You think Lakers fans only like Kobe for who he is?? C'mon man.

    These athletes are placed in a city, and told to perform.
    There is only one thing we should cheer Vince for, and that is the accomplishments he achieved in a Toronto Raptors uniform.

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    • #32
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      As long as you, Joey, feel it is warranted. Everyone else will do that same and if I were a betting man I would place my money on that being a long time. You're not going to change people's mind with a thread Joey. I told you what Carter would have to do to start the healing process. To start fixing this. It's foolish to forgive someone who does not look for forgiveness and does not feel he did anything wrong.
      By no means am I trying to change peoples mind.
      I learned a loong time ago, there's no doing that on this Forum. Period. Haha

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      • #33
        Vince is welcome back but he must have Jamaal Magloires 2012 season playing time.

        And isn`t allowed to play home games.
        NBADoppelgangers.tumblr.com

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        • #34
          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
          By no means am I trying to change peoples mind.
          I learned a loong time ago, there's no doing that on this Forum. Period. Haha
          lol - really though!

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          • #35
            nah I'd never forgive that dude. I'm just hoping another one of that caliber of player shows up in Toronto(hopefully on draft night) that makes us forget about him forever. That's why i have so much faith in DeRozan, he may not be that electric but at least he just shuts up, plays, and works his ass off to try to be above average and on top of that he doesn't get injured a 100 times a year.

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            • #36
              With the way he put Toronto on the map, and really was the face of the franchise and is the reason why we are still standing now. He deserves one, but his attitude and bad decision making prevents it from happening.

              Vince Carter was an electrifying player, fun to watch, and was extremely hard to guard in his prime.... Would I forgive him? Depends. Would I give him a standing ovation? Yeah.

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              • #37
                One could argue that had the draft day trade not occurred the Raptors would have had a duo of McGrady and Jamison. Jamison, being the complimentary player he is, would not have threatened T-Mac for the spotlight and so T-Mac might have stayed long term; I'm not saying that's good or bad now in hindsight. Carter gets credit for being the first real recognized star to wear a Raptors jersey but if he never came along someone else would have. Carter did not put the Raptors on the map. The management, who put out strong rosters, put the Raptors on the map. Carter gets too much credit. Somebody had to draft him and somebody had top put the right guys around him to push him to be great at the time. It's not a coincidence that he reached his pinnacle at a young age. It correlates directly with the entrance of Charles Oakley, aka. the true leader of the playoff squad the wowed the league for a millisecond. Once guys like Oak and YYD exited Carter was not the same player. Not even playing with J-Kidd in his prime was he able to recapture his peak.

                It would seem Toronto GM's only get recognition when things go wrong.

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                • #38
                  Apollo wrote: View Post
                  One could argue that had the draft day trade not occurred the Raptors would have had a duo of McGrady and Jamison. Jamison, being the complimentary player he is, would not have threatened T-Mac for the spotlight and so T-Mac might have stayed long term; I'm not saying that's good or bad now in hindsight. Carter gets credit for being the first real recognized star to wear a Raptors jersey but if he never came along someone else would have. Carter did not put the Raptors on the map. The management, who put out strong rosters, put the Raptors on the map. Carter gets too much credit. Somebody had to draft him and somebody had top put the right guys around him to push him to be great at the time. It's not a coincidence that he reached his pinnacle at a young age. It correlates directly with the entrance of Charles Oakley, aka. the true leader of the playoff squad the wowed the league for a millisecond. Once guys like Oak and YYD exited Carter was not the same player. Not even playing with J-Kidd in his prime was he able to recapture his peak. It would seem Toronto GM's only get recognition when things go wrong.
                  Doesn't take away the fact that Vince Carter was a great player in that time, and was the one being watched to perform for this team.

                  The GMs created the team, but they don't play the games.

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                  • #39
                    I never took away anything. I gave something to you. That something was the idea that there was a lot more attributing to Carter's success in Toronto than his slam dunks and successful off balanced jumpers.

                    Remembering his success doesn't reduce the impact of how poorly he conducted himself and it doesn't right wrongs which he doesn't even recognize. Being good at basketball doesn't negate what is right.

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                    • #40
                      I despised VC as much as anybody when he left, and loved him as much as anybody when he was here. Lately, with the OTR interview with T Mac (still hate T Mac) and this one here...I gotta say he has come along way from being the kid who scorned the whole country. He seems to realize that he made some bad choices. So if he would embrace a return to Toronto, and take on whatever role Casey gave him, the fans should embrace that too--he's the greatest Raptor ever and his jersey should hang in the rafters for what he did to put the Raps on the map, the franchise may have gone the way of the Grizzlies if we took Antawn Jameson instead...

                      Still love to hate him, but respect the man for his comments lately...would love to see #15 again in T.O.

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                      • #41
                        Misconceptions

                        I think this whole idea of the Raptors being moved if not for Carter is based on no real facts or evidence. Basketball in Toronto had a strong following prior to Carter and it showed steady growth. Toronto has a larger population than Vancouver and the team had/has better ownership. The team has stunk to high heaven since he left and they're still here? Why? Because Toronto is a good basketball market. Toronto posts respectable gate numbers in the worst of years. When people are purchasing those tickets to go witness a stinker they're not doing it with visions of Vince Carter dunks in the back of his mind. What Carter brought was American perceived credibility to the team and it is my belief people are mixing this up with actual club health. What some ignorant ass who couldn't pick Toronto out on a map thinks of the Raptors means nothing to the team's long term health. If it did they'd be long gone.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Apollo wrote: View Post
                          I think this whole idea of the Raptors being moved if not for Carter is based on no real facts or evidence. Basketball in Toronto had a strong following prior to Carter and it showed steady growth. Toronto has a larger population than Vancouver and the team had/has better ownership. The team has stunk to high heaven since he left and they're still here? Why? Because Toronto is a good basketball market. Toronto posts respectable gate numbers in the worst of years. When people are purchasing those tickets to go witness a stinker they're not doing it with visions of Vince Carter dunks in the back of his mind. What Carter brought was American perceived credibility to the team and it is my belief people are mixing this up with actual club health. What some ignorant ass who couldn't pick Toronto out on a map thinks of the Raptors means nothing to the team's long term health. If it did they'd be long gone.
                          unless he's tall, black, and knows how to put a ball in a hoop.

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                          • #43
                            akashsingh wrote: View Post
                            unless he's tall, black, and knows how to put a ball in a hoop.
                            Stay classy Jethro

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                            • #44
                              joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                              You think the Bulls fans only liked MJ for who he is??
                              You think Lakers fans only like Kobe for who he is?? C'mon man.

                              These athletes are placed in a city, and told to perform.
                              There is only one thing we should cheer Vince for, and that is the accomplishments he achieved in a Toronto Raptors uniform.
                              You're right, but I should have been more specific. In a lot of ways, what a player accomplishes and who they are are closely related. The way MJ performed for Chicago, his character came across. To a lesser extent, Kobe's character comes across too. Regardless of their accomplishments, their will to win and their leadership (maybe MJ moreso than Kobe) was/is usually evident.

                              So what I meant was that Carter thinks we should cheer for him because he "put us on the map". But the accomplishment he'll mostly be remembered for is stunning everyone in the dunk competition, which is a very individual-focussed event. If he had won us a big playoff game while playing with the flu, maybe things would be different.

                              I think what frustrated a lot of fans was that Vince's obvious talent was overshadowed by moments where he would chose himself over the team, the city, the country.
                              _________________________

                              Celebrating the Futility of the Toronto Raptors:
                              http://www.holycraptors.com

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                              • #45
                                Jordan and Bryant never publicly demanded a trade and then tanked games and faked/embellished injuries until management felt forced to get rid of him. Had Michael Jordan pulled what Carter pulled he would be despised in Chicago. LeBron James carried the Cavs to the finals but that's all be mostly forgotten and replaced with hate because of how he conducted himself on the way out; a different situation but just as classless and selfish.

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