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Would you rather Lin or Bayless?
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special1 wrote: View PostPersonally, i dont think that all players are created equal (in terms of basketball skills and mentality)..... some play better with certain roles..... In my humble opinion:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and even quacks......Its a DUCK..... maybe Jerryd knows he's a starter.....just like you know your a basketball fan.....
you said it yourself.....Calderon is fine with coming off the bench.....his numbers generally say he can be a back up point guard.....9-11 ppg and 8-9 assists?? good but not awesome..... I would take 17-18 ppg and 6-7 assists ANYDAY of the week..... Jose would still give you those numbers with the second unit..... its common sense IMO
Your duck commentary makes no sense... any player in any sport (or any person in any job) has to EARN the top job. CEOs work their way up the corporate ladder, 1st violin in an orchestra works their way up to the lead, baseball players work their way up through the minor leagues, etc.... You illustrated my point about Bayless for me; he isn't willing to EARN the starting PG role. He has a sense of entitlement about him and rather than working hard as the backup to force the coach to make him the starter, he mopes around and puts forth maybe 75% effort as a backup, then magically cranks it up when he gets the chance (due to injury, not from having earned it) to start. That is the very definition of a selfish, me-first, non-team player! Thanks for proving my point! :-)
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special1 wrote: View PostI agree.... if your not bringing back Bayless to give him a shot at the starting PG....then let him go elsewhere. We've heard over and over again that the raptors are looking for a point guard.... we know that Jose's contract ends after the coming season....if Jose is not 100% apart of the future, why not give Jerryd a shot at the starting role?? At least we can stop having these debates and let his actions speak.
Would Westbrook or Jennings be as effective coming off the bench with inconsistent minutes??? Almost sounds ridiculous to ask the question..... i do recall A LOT of people saying Westbrook was not a true point guard (some still say).... i'll tell you this... I would take him on my team ANYDAY ..and i was saying this from the moment he came in the league
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jimmie wrote: View PostBayless is not Westbrook. They aren't the same person, they're not the same player, they don't have the same skillset. The comparison doesn't really hold any water. Westbrook was never in the position Bayless has been in for 4 years, so we don't know how he would have performed if he'd started his career as a backup (although, if you DO want to compare circumstances, they both came in with the opportunity to take the starter's role; Westbrook beat out Earl Watson and Damien Wilkins after about 20 games; Bayless couldn't beat out Steve Blake and Sergio Rodriguez). Bring that argument/comparison of Westbrook-Bayless to an NBA GM and they'd laugh at you.
Look, if you can't do it off the bench, then you can't do it at all, in my books. That, combined with the fact that Bayless thinks he's a starter and wants to be a starter, are enough for me to let him walk and try his luck elsewhere. IMO, not worth the (high) potential that he'll just continue to suck off the bench, but at a higher price.
Lets also keep in mind that Brandon Roy was on that team as well......thats probably why Bayless averaged about 12 mins a game.....I bet they would've kept him had they known Brandon Roy's knees were done.
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MangoKid wrote: View PostThere's absolutely no way you can compare Westbrook and Bayless. They're on two different levels. At least when Westbrook's shot isn't falling, he's a terror on defense. He finds ways to win. All I see Bayless do is pout on the bench - and I like Bayless. I've always been a big supporter of Bayless, but I get frustrated with the things like not getting his teammates into rythym, taking really ill-advised shots early into the shot clock and making really low-ball IQ plays when he's a really smart guy. Believe me, if the braintrust figured that Bayles was THE guy for the starting point guard of this team, they would have started him more times over Calderon.
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special1 wrote: View PostI think its a joke that you actually believed i was comparing Westbrook to Bayless.....maybe my point didnt come across as i meant it.
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MangoKid wrote: View PostI don't know who you are, you're new here, so I have no idea if you're being facetious or not, but if you want to continue sassing people on here, I'm sure the mods and admins can cook up something to remedy that.
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special1 wrote: View PostOkay MangoKid.....apparantely we both believe that you cannot compare Westbrook and Bayless (Talent wise - especially athleticism and speed).....however they are both seemingly shoot first point guards or combo guards that get a ton of hate for their non-passing qualities (thats where the comparison begins and ends).....I actually said Jennings as well (I guessed you missed that part).......Promise you wont complain to the Mods and Admins??? FOH lol
As for Jennings, I believe he's a better point guard than Bayless. He's quicker, better court vision, better defensively. Jennings plays major minutes. He has led his team to the playoffs. Bayless has not.
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special1 wrote: View PostOkay MangoKid.....apparantely we both believe that you cannot compare Westbrook and Bayless (Talent wise - especially athleticism and speed).....however they are both seemingly shoot first point guards or combo guards that get a ton of hate for their non-passing qualities (thats where the comparison begins and ends).....I actually said Jennings as well (I guessed you missed that part).......Promise you wont complain to the Mods and Admins??? FOH lol
I suggest you look through the RR rules and policies. Your ideas and opinions are more than welcome. You are never going to have an issue posting a controversial, Raptor-related topic or opinion. Unfortunately, the tone of your replies does not fly with what is accepted and considered 'the norm' on RaptorRepublic forums.
Mutual respect is key to the discussions here. Thus far, I am not getting that vibe in your posts. Posting your opinion in a manner than attempts to belittle other posters is best kept to the numerous unmoderated or accepting of such sites on the web.
If you have an issue with anything I've typed, please private message myself, MangoKid, Apollo, Doc Naismith, or .40 Cal Flakes. There is no need to waste other members time on this matter. If these types of posts continue, there will be little need to worry about how you post here because you won't.
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MangoKid wrote: View PostIf the Raptors pick up Bayless' QO and sign him long term, you're probably looking at 4 million per season for 3-4 seasons. Lin will cost 5-6 million per. Now talent level being a wash from what we've seen, would you rather the team playing before a full house with great fan support or 60-65% full? The players will tell you that they'd rather play before a full house. That's what Lin brings. That's the difference between the two and it should play a huge factor in deciding as to whether or not to sign him.
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visko23 wrote: View Post100%. Lin means more national tv time which players like. Bosh bounced because of this. Pretty obvious as he immediately filmed entourage and whatever else! People wanted to come here when Vince was making highlights and getting us on TNT, NBC, ESPN, etc. After that, who wants to play when their fam and friends never sees them? Lin would help this, so he brings more to the table than a Bayless anywhere near the same pricetag.
The point being that we do not know how sustainable his performance will be when he becomes a known quantity and with the Raptors be playing under another coach and with different mates. Will the crowds still show when/if he struggles or not play at those levels for the 25 games in NY. What happens then? Getting Lin at the price he will command in order for the Knicks not to match is just a pretty dangerous leap in my view. This especially since we do not really need a pg as a priority while we have other needs.
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MangoKid wrote: View PostThere's absolutely no way you can compare Westbrook and Bayless. They're on two different levels. At least when Westbrook's shot isn't falling, he's a terror on defense. He finds ways to win. All I see Bayless do is pout on the bench - and I like Bayless. I've always been a big supporter of Bayless, but I get frustrated with the things like not getting his teammates into rythym, taking really ill-advised shots early into the shot clock and making really low-ball IQ plays when he's a really smart guy. Believe me, if the braintrust figured that Bayles was THE guy for the starting point guard of this team, they would have started him more times over Calderon.
I look at Bayless' situation as a half-full rather than half-empty type thing. Id be worried if he doesnt pout on the bench, because if you have a 24 yr old player who act "contented" riding the bench and being a backup, then you have to question that player's drive. A player that young should be aspiring to be a starter, should be confident that he can be a starter. And when he does get his chance, he doesnt let it go to waste, he plays and does what he can to contribute. And what i like most about Bayless is he's politically correct, you hear him telling the media he'll do whatever the Raps ask of him, but its obvious he wants to contribute more, as a starter. but he knows coming out and saying that will most likely disrupt team chemistry so he's taking it slow, taking his lumps and hopes that eventually he'll be a starter someday.
all the negatives you outlined, IMO, can be fixed, or improved through camp and practices.
DC already said at the start of the season that there will be no PG controversy under his watch, as long as Calderon is able to play, he will start, specially on a season that is most likely a wash anyways. The real question now is, if they re-sign Bayless, will that be insinuating that he is going to start? IMO, if they re-sign Bayless and then not draft a PG, then Yes.
Oh and to answer the question, Im going with Bayless over Lin. stats are close, but I would prefer Bayless' drive and defense over Lin.
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tbihis wrote: View PostI dont think he was comparing Bayless with Westbrook as players on the same level, the way i understand his post, he's comparing the style of play, not the level.
I look at Bayless' situation as a half-full rather than half-empty type thing. Id be worried if he doesnt pout on the bench, because if you have a 24 yr old player who act "contented" riding the bench and being a backup, then you have to question that player's drive. A player that young should be aspiring to be a starter, should be confident that he can be a starter. And when he does get his chance, he doesnt let it go to waste, he plays and does what he can to contribute. And what i like most about Bayless is he's politically correct, you hear him telling the media he'll do whatever the Raps ask of him, but its obvious he wants to contribute more, as a starter. but he knows coming out and saying that will most likely disrupt team chemistry so he's taking it slow, taking his lumps and hopes that eventually he'll be a starter someday.
all the negatives you outlined, IMO, can be fixed, or improved through camp and practices.
DC already said at the start of the season that there will be no PG controversy under his watch, as long as Calderon is able to play, he will start, specially on a season that is most likely a wash anyways. The real question now is, if they re-sign Bayless, will that be insinuating that he is going to start? IMO, if they re-sign Bayless and then not draft a PG, then Yes.
Oh and to answer the question, Im going with Bayless over Lin. stats are close, but I would prefer Bayless' drive and defense over Lin.
69.23 percent of the members who voted agree with us that they would prefer Bayless over Lin I hope BC sees this!
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special1 wrote: View Post+1
69.23 percent of the members who voted agree with us that they would prefer Bayless over Lin I hope BC sees this!
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