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  • #16
    Kabongo is more like Rondo

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    • #17
      NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
      Kabongo is more like Rondo
      Swishscout seems to agree with you. Here is their comparison:

      Darren Collison with shades of Rajon Rondo
      I thought Myck had a bit more flair and was less effective on defense than these comparisons.

      ― John Wooden

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      • #18
        Lawrie would have been a hit no matter of nationalty nor team he played for.

        NBA players (the very good ones) tend to be prima donnas (the NBA encourages this) and really have no allegiances for the most part. I dont know if it's a cultural thing but Nash is a different dude. I take more pride in Nash's Canadian-ness (?) as representative of a value system rather than his basketball skills which he uses to advance the former. As for the Raptors...always acquire the player with the best combination of skill and character no matter wherefrom.

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        • #19
          Bendit wrote: View Post
          Lawrie would have been a hit no matter of nationalty nor team he played for.

          NBA players (the very good ones) tend to be prima donnas (the NBA encourages this) and really have no allegiances for the most part. I dont know if it's a cultural thing but Nash is a different dude. I take more pride in Nash's Canadian-ness (?) as representative of a value system rather than his basketball skills which he uses to advance the former. As for the Raptors...always acquire the player with the best combination of skill and character no matter wherefrom.
          I don't believe you judge a person by the country they grew up in and I think you make a great point about the combination of skill and character. However, are there times when a player excels because they are motivated by a sense of representing their country/province/city? I know their are times when players are unmotivated to represent a certain team/city (i.e. - Steve Francis). It did seem like Magloire was pretty excited to be specifically on the Raps this year... and do you think he would have done the year end "thank you" to the fans on any other team in the league? As well, we have talked on this board about the possibility of reuniting Compton boys and how that could be a motivating factor.

          ― John Wooden

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          • #20
            Stern should give us Wiggins like he gave the Knicks Ewing
            @sweatpantsjer

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            • #21
              Jamaal Magloire is a bit of a sore example for me and his allegiance quotient level. I am now referring to the Canadian national team who seeks to have the best talent available to them....and JM was a consistent no show (not once). I dont believe he ever said why. Sorry, I have a jaded view of Jamaal's motivations re joining the Raptors this season...he needed a job and it so happened that BC was stocking his team with some low calibre filler for a season to allow for a high draft slot. But a certain Dwayne Casey upset those plans somewhat and Jamaal played his intimidating/cheerleader role well. The speech? He was in a way a natural and willing choice. He did a good job with a dose of politicking...he probably gets to come back for another year in his hometown. Not a bad way to finish his career.

              A reuniting of the Compton boys? No thanks. I had responded similarly in the that thread essentially for the same reasoning...personal type external motivating factors should not really play a role in pro player acquisition. More often than not this tends to be more distractive than positive in my view. Of course if the talent is exceptional...then...

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              • #22
                I don't know much about it as a non-Canadian, but as far as I've read Magloire did still come back to Toronto during summers and contributed to the community. Calderon doesn't get a lot of slack around here because of his choice to participate for his country which has hurt his play on the Raptors. But his team, Spain, is at least alway among the medal candidates, which makes it much more logical to me. Magloire just focused on his professional career and I don't see a problem with that.

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                • #23
                  Bendit wrote: View Post
                  Jamaal Magloire is a bit of a sore example for me and his allegiance quotient level. I am now referring to the Canadian national team who seeks to have the best talent available to them....and JM was a consistent no show (not once). I dont believe he ever said why. Sorry, I have a jaded view of Jamaal's motivations re joining the Raptors this season...he needed a job and it so happened that BC was stocking his team with some low calibre filler for a season to allow for a high draft slot. But a certain Dwayne Casey upset those plans somewhat and Jamaal played his intimidating/cheerleader role well. The speech? He was in a way a natural and willing choice. He did a good job with a dose of politicking...he probably gets to come back for another year in his hometown. Not a bad way to finish his career.

                  A reuniting of the Compton boys? No thanks. I had responded similarly in the that thread essentially for the same reasoning...personal type external motivating factors should not really play a role in pro player acquisition. More often than not this tends to be more distractive than positive in my view. Of course if the talent is exceptional...then...
                  I am not a big fan of Magloire either, but just used him as an example of someone that was elevated by the team because of his roots. I also agree that Magloire put on a "show" this year to try and redeem himself for lack of participation for Canada. I am also aware that a lot of the hype around these things come from the media and PR to bring more attention to the teams; however, I grew up with Dan Hamhuis in Northern BC and he signed with the Vancouver Canucks for less a couple years ago because he WANTED to play for the team from where he grew up. He loves playing for them and has taken that excitement into his play on the ice and his community work off the ice.
                  I guess I am saying that getting guys that are excited about playing in Canada is key... and I would hope that would be the case for Canadian born players.

                  ― John Wooden

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                  • #24
                    They messed up BIG TIME when they drafted PJ TUCKER over Denham Brown...

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                    • #25
                      The Coach wrote: View Post
                      I am not a big fan of Magloire either, but just used him as an example of someone that was elevated by the team because of his roots. I also agree that Magloire put on a "show" this year to try and redeem himself for lack of participation for Canada. I am also aware that a lot of the hype around these things come from the media and PR to bring more attention to the teams; however, I grew up with Dan Hamhuis in Northern BC and he signed with the Vancouver Canucks for less a couple years ago because he WANTED to play for the team from where he grew up. He loves playing for them and has taken that excitement into his play on the ice and his community work off the ice.
                      I guess I am saying that getting guys that are excited about playing in Canada is key... and I would hope that would be the case for Canadian born players.
                      I believe I mentioned "NBA players" in my first note and have a different opinion about the pro NHL hockey player even on the matter of the "home town discount" which I believe is fairly common in the NHL. The hockey culture is just more team oriented and ownership in the past have taken much advantage of this. I had previously mentioned the possibility of a "cultural" difference in the NBA. Of course there will always be exceptions. I just remember being very disappointed that JM always said "no". His participating could have advanced the game so much more even in Toronto. Even today, Nash has gotten involved again to do this. In anycase, I digress from the central notion in discussion...with regard to the Raptors...no national or hometown perogatives, childhood friendships or other nepotistic reasoning should supersede talent and need. This leads to clique forming. Just not good.

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                      • #26
                        Soft Euro wrote: View Post
                        I don't know much about it as a non-Canadian, but as far as I've read Magloire did still come back to Toronto during summers and contributed to the community. Calderon doesn't get a lot of slack around here because of his choice to participate for his country which has hurt his play on the Raptors. But his team, Spain, is at least alway among the medal candidates, which makes it much more logical to me. Magloire just focused on his professional career and I don't see a problem with that.
                        If I understand the typical euro national sensibility, it is an honour to represent their country at the world's or Olympic tournaments. Sometimes this participation is forced (not overt) but there is much national fervour and pressure that not participating is not an option for fear of being "loathed" locally. Nationalism is a much more prevalent entity than in North America. After all it is the "fear" of this that in part prompted the creation of the Euro project! Even in the US it is a different type of fervour. Rather than nationalism as the driver it is more a proving of American exceptionalism. Canada does not have this trait (I dont believe).

                        Without getting too deep in such reasonings and differences, my only argument about participation is to assist in the growth of the particular sport in your country/immediate sphere of influence. More often than not, it was the grass roots institutions that assisted the player to achieve a level of expertise to be then extended thru to the professional level. I do understand the difficulty of the season and the contractual reality but not to be a participant even in olympic qualifiers is a bit curious. Jose's supporters in Spain couldnt care less about what Raptor fans think. And Raptor fans did not begrudge Jose's participation then. Now (2012) is another matter. It's his age and history of injury after/in such events. For myself I think he has done his part for Spain and believe the Raptors now need his best form possible either on the team or as an asset for trade.

                        As re JM's local good deeds I am not in a position to comment. I am sure he has done his part but many many others in a position of wealth do so as well. Vince Carter used to do quite a bit. To be cynical, charity expenditures receive a fairly healthy tax break. Participating in olympic qualifiers do not...just an assist to the growth of the game in the country.

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                        • #27
                          Bendit wrote: View Post
                          If I understand the typical euro national sensibility, it is an honour to represent their country at the world's or Olympic tournaments. Sometimes this participation is forced (not overt) but there is much national fervour and pressure that not participating is not an option for fear of being "loathed" locally. Nationalism is a much more prevalent entity than in North America. After all it is the "fear" of this that in part prompted the creation of the Euro project! Even in the US it is a different type of fervour. Rather than nationalism as the driver it is more a proving of American exceptionalism. Canada does not have this trait (I dont believe).
                          In Europe there is a lot of diversity between countries; for instance, The Netherlands is culturally much closer to Canada than to Lithuania and other Eastern European countries. It's hard to speak about a 'typical euro national sensibility'. But I understand what you mean when looking at some of the original countries that were part of the European Union (France and Germany I'm looking at you).

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                          • #28
                            Father rev wrote: View Post
                            They messed up BIG TIME when they drafted PJ TUCKER over Denham Brown...
                            I think we can agree denham is a better player than pj.
                            If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                            Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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                            • #29
                              Soft Euro wrote: View Post
                              ...
                              The Netherlands is culturally much closer to Canada...
                              you).
                              Is it true that netherlands still are especially kind to canadians because of that thing with the princess and ww2?
                              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Bendit wrote: View Post
                                I believe I mentioned "NBA players" in my first note and have a different opinion about the pro NHL hockey player even on the matter of the "home town discount" which I believe is fairly common in the NHL. The hockey culture is just more team oriented and ownership in the past have taken much advantage of this. I had previously mentioned the possibility of a "cultural" difference in the NBA. Of course there will always be exceptions. I just remember being very disappointed that JM always said "no". His participating could have advanced the game so much more even in Toronto. Even today, Nash has gotten involved again to do this. In anycase, I digress from the central notion in discussion...with regard to the Raptors...no national or hometown perogatives, childhood friendships or other nepotistic reasoning should supersede talent and need. This leads to clique forming. Just not good.
                                You make an interesting point about the difference between athletes in different sports... never thought that that would be a huge factor. I still contend that their are athletes in basketball that enjoy playing in/close to their home towns/states. I would say money and branding themselves seems like priority; however, you don't think there is any motivation in playing for home town? I have heard that DeMar would be interested in going back to the LA area to be close to family. Both Tristan and Cory mentioned how great it would be to play for the Raptors in their pre-draft workouts (yes, most guys says that, but you know they actually would of).

                                I also agree that we do not want to create a fraternity or clique, but a winning culture... I do think that to create a winning culture you must have guys that want to be here and have a strong passion to see the Raps succeed. I believe players like Nash would wear the jersey with pride, and he is not the only Canadian basketball player that would be that way.

                                ― John Wooden

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