Everything Terrence Ross

[IwishIwasZachLowe]

I know Ross has been kinda shitty for a while now, Hill would help but would bolt after a year. So, are you willing to trade Ross for late picks? Unless R.C. Buford is drafting for us, then I'd say no.

[ebrian]

Here's a rumor.. Never heard of the site though so who knows.

http://en.yibada.com/articles/36661/...olas-batum.htm

Lakers offer Jordan Hill and a low pick for Ross? I dunno, seems kinda funny to have Batum and Ross in the same rumor. I'd take Batum in a heart beat.

[IwishIwasZachLowe]

Trade JV for Cauley Stein? Lol he's going to be a bust, why would we need him?

People have to slow down on the draft talk. Who's to say Cauley Stein isn't going to be the next Tyson Chandler? He maybe a bust, but what did he do in College that does not translate well to the NBA? This is a Skip Bayless line, just rip on a guy and through out a general opinion not backed up by any stats. I'd love to have Cauley Stein on this team, at what expense Im not sure, but there is nothing in his game that says BUST to me. He's an elite defender with tremendous athleticism and more lateral quickness than most centres in the NBA.

Please explain.

[Primer]

So why are you using them as an example? How does that fit any paradigm of logic?

The original argument was about what the Raptors would do. No sensible team would trade their pick. If we're bringing up irrationality then there's no debate. Generally, when one says, " No one would ..." They are assuming a certain level of competency of others. Otherwise, why debate anything? There's always a crazy person, or someone's uncle who did too much, or saw too much back in 'Nam that will do anything.

If your point is to be right, then bravo, you're right! You got me! Didn't know we were playing a sport, but you won! This is a message board where we often have to decipher misspells and poor language. If you're criticizing me for not spelling out my argument to the nth degree, that's on you.

The Knicks aren't an example of a paradigm of logic. They are a team, in the lottery, that currently is looking to trade their pick. You said no one would trade their pick, and I showed you a team that is currently looking to trade their pick, it's that simple. Whether it's sensible or not for the Knicks to be looking to trade their pick, the fact remains they are looking to trade their pick.

I'm not talking about broader observations of team logic, just a straightforward statement of who is actively shopping their pick right now.

[blackjitsu]

You said:
"Teams in the lottery want control. Who in the lottery is giving that up for a year (or 2) of Demar?"

So I brought up the Knicks, who are in the lottery and want to deal their pick for a player like Demar.

Then you responded with:
"Just wanted to point out how flawed using the Knicks as an example of anything is."

Which makes no god damn sense. The Knicks are a real life example of a team in the lottery that is willing to give up their pick.

No where ever did I say the Knicks are competent. Their fools who we should take advantage of.

So why are you using them as an example? How does that fit any paradigm of logic?

The original argument was about what the Raptors would do. No sensible team would trade their pick. If we're bringing up irrationality then there's no debate. Generally, when one says, " No one would ..." They are assuming a certain level of competency of others. Otherwise, why debate anything? There's always a crazy person, or someone's uncle who did too much, or saw too much back in 'Nam that will do anything.

If your point is to be right, then bravo, you're right! You got me! Didn't know we were playing a sport, but you won! This is a message board where we often have to decipher misspells and poor language. If you're criticizing me for not spelling out my argument to the nth degree, that's on you.

[Primer]

Not saying it's consensus. The people who are closest to the scenario and are emotionally invested see keeping Casey as a bad idea. Journalists who have no connection to the city disagree. If you look through my history it took me a while to reach the conclusion of firing Casey. And even after I did, I still pointed out that they couldn't replace the best coach in the history of the franchise (statistically) with just anyone. I pointed out that resumes matter, and that it was possible that the team kept him.

As far as the Knickerbockers, there is zero evidence that their front office is competent. They still have the same fiddling owner, who has quietly brought back Zeke into the organisation and the first thing they did was keep Carmelo, before anyone knew that the new TV deal was going to open up the financial situation.

They then overpaid for a rookie head coach who is trying to install an offensive system that doesn't match the personnel and they lied to their fan base with fictional ideas that the team had a chance to make the playoffs. Then, the Knicks traded their 2 best defensive players (who both made the playoffs on new teams) as well. That's all under PJ's watch.

None of that tells me that they are competent.

As far as the best player from the home team getting selected -- there's always the exception that proves the rule. You're right who gives a shit. The public will not care -- but it's not about us. It's about the private corporation's ability to make money from new revenue sources and having an All Star (or even better 2) would likely mean something for potential corporate sponsors.

You said:
"Teams in the lottery want control. Who in the lottery is giving that up for a year (or 2) of Demar?"

So I brought up the Knicks, who are in the lottery and want to deal their pick for a player like Demar.

Then you responded with:
"Just wanted to point out how flawed using the Knicks as an example of anything is."

Which makes no god damn sense. The Knicks are a real life example of a team in the lottery that is willing to give up their pick.

No where ever did I say the Knicks are competent. Their fools who we should take advantage of.

[blackjitsu]

There is nothing flawed about bringing up the Knicks. They have the 4 pick this year and are widely reported by every sports outlet as looking to deal the pick for a young all star caliber vet. The Knicks disprove your theory that no one is looking to trade those picks, as they are looking to trade that pick. They aren't worried about the cap implications, they're worried about fielding a competitive team while they still have Melo.

Firing Casey was obvious to us posters, but a lot of sports writers were saying we should keep him, so don't act like it was some universal consensus. The devil's advocate argument for keeping Casey is fairly strong, e.g. more wins each year, record wins back to back years, back to back playoff appearances after a super long drought, back to back division titles, top 3 OFF EFF, still under contract for $4M. It wasn't a slam dunk to fire him.

What I was saying is that whoever is the best player on the Raptors next year will probably get selected for the ASG, regardless of how good the team is. Someone on the team is going to score around 20 points a game, and get a ASG nod, deserved or not. It's like the Olympics where the host country automatically qualifies (2005 was the last time the host city didn't have a player in the game). If a player doesn't get voted in the coaches will select one. If the coaches don't a Raptor will be the first replacement player selected. If none get selected, then who gives a shit, it has no bearing on how much money the MLSE will make off the whole endeavor. The ASG easily sells out every year, regardless of where it is. The only guys the MLSE will care about being in the game are guys like Lebron and Curry, because that's who everyone is going to be there to see.

Not saying it's consensus. The people who are closest to the scenario and are emotionally invested see keeping Casey as a bad idea. Journalists who have no connection to the city disagree. If you look through my history it took me a while to reach the conclusion of firing Casey. And even after I did, I still pointed out that they couldn't replace the best coach in the history of the franchise (statistically) with just anyone. I pointed out that resumes matter, and that it was possible that the team kept him.

As far as the Knickerbockers, there is zero evidence that their front office is competent. They still have the same fiddling owner, who has quietly brought back Zeke into the organisation and the first thing they did was keep Carmelo, before anyone knew that the new TV deal was going to open up the financial situation.

They then overpaid for a rookie head coach who is trying to install an offensive system that doesn't match the personnel and they lied to their fan base with fictional ideas that the team had a chance to make the playoffs. Then, the Knicks traded their 2 best defensive players (who both made the playoffs on new teams) as well. That's all under PJ's watch.

None of that tells me that they are competent.

As far as the best player from the home team getting selected -- there's always the exception that proves the rule. You're right who gives a shit. The public will not care -- but it's not about us. It's about the private corporation's ability to make money from new revenue sources and having an All Star (or even better 2) would likely mean something for potential corporate sponsors.

[Primer]

Just wanted to point out how flawed using the Knicks as an example of anything is. Also, the current piece on the front page about the cap and holds explains why the next few years of draft picks have extremely high value as the cap increases but rookie contracts will not adjust until 2017.

When I talk about the ASG I'm not talking in a vacuum. Of course moving one of the Raps All Stars should be done IF the right scenario comes up. But, this isn't a vacuum. Look at how this organization works and thinks. Moving Casey was obvious to EVERYONE here. Look at the track record. I wish I was wrong. They should move GV -- there's too much money invested in the backcourt,and not enough vets who can play on the roster. But, he's an ambassador for the Pan Am games. The organisation is more interested in marketing campaigns (We the North) than actual winning.

The ASG is more of the same. There's an opportunity for both DD and Lowry to be selected. Fans will not randomly vote for Raps to play if DD and/or Lowry are gone. If that was the case Bargs would have gotten in at least once. Canadian fans get swept up by success and talent.

As far as Masai being a dolt, he might not have any choice. MLSE is a privately traded company. If the board wants those guys here. Those guys are here. Other iterations of MLSE have demanded far worse from their GMs. Having to wait to make a move is a small sacrifice in the bigger picture of things.

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

There is nothing flawed about bringing up the Knicks. They have the 4 pick this year and are widely reported by every sports outlet as looking to deal the pick for a young all star caliber vet. The Knicks disprove your theory that no one is looking to trade those picks, as they are looking to trade that pick. They aren't worried about the cap implications, they're worried about fielding a competitive team while they still have Melo.

Firing Casey was obvious to us posters, but a lot of sports writers were saying we should keep him, so don't act like it was some universal consensus. The devil's advocate argument for keeping Casey is fairly strong, e.g. more wins each year, record wins back to back years, back to back playoff appearances after a super long drought, back to back division titles, top 3 OFF EFF, still under contract for $4M. It wasn't a slam dunk to fire him.

What I was saying is that whoever is the best player on the Raptors next year will probably get selected for the ASG, regardless of how good the team is. Someone on the team is going to score around 20 points a game, and get a ASG nod, deserved or not. It's like the Olympics where the host country automatically qualifies (2005 was the last time the host city didn't have a player in the game). If a player doesn't get voted in the coaches will select one. If the coaches don't a Raptor will be the first replacement player selected. If none get selected, then who gives a shit, it has no bearing on how much money the MLSE will make off the whole endeavor. The ASG easily sells out every year, regardless of where it is. The only guys the MLSE will care about being in the game are guys like Lebron and Curry, because that's who everyone is going to be there to see.

[blackjitsu]

Even Chad Ford said NYK are looking to deal their pick for a young vet All Star caliber player, so that's who would be willing to give up their pick for Demar. Not just us crazy forum posters making that up. Just like Cleveland did with Love, they'd want DD to commit to resigning there after the season before finalizing the trade, it happens all the time so not a huge hurdle.

The Raps would absolutely move DD or Lowry before the ASG, who gives a shit about the ASG? Whoever is the best player on the Raptors will get voted in, it doesn't need to be DD or Lowry, the Canadian fans will just overwhelm the ballot box like they did for Lowry this year, so much so that Lowry was the freaking starter. I'd also be inclined to keep Lowry, to that's your Raptor All Star right there.

If Masai bases any of his decisions on the fact the ASG will be in Toronto then he's an incompetent dolt. The ASG being in Toronto means nothing except a bunch of hotels and restaurants having a good business weekend. It's just silly to think it's some showcase for the organization when every team comes to Toronto every year to play the Raps already.

Just wanted to point out how flawed using the Knicks as an example of anything is. Also, the current piece on the front page about the cap and holds explains why the next few years of draft picks have extremely high value as the cap increases but rookie contracts will not adjust until 2017.

When I talk about the ASG I'm not talking in a vacuum. Of course moving one of the Raps All Stars should be done IF the right scenario comes up. But, this isn't a vacuum. Look at how this organization works and thinks. Moving Casey was obvious to EVERYONE here. Look at the track record. I wish I was wrong. They should move GV -- there's too much money invested in the backcourt,and not enough vets who can play on the roster. But, he's an ambassador for the Pan Am games. The organisation is more interested in marketing campaigns (We the North) than actual winning.

The ASG is more of the same. There's an opportunity for both DD and Lowry to be selected. Fans will not randomly vote for Raps to play if DD and/or Lowry are gone. If that was the case Bargs would have gotten in at least once. Canadian fans get swept up by success and talent.

As far as Masai being a dolt, he might not have any choice. MLSE is a privately traded company. If the board wants those guys here. Those guys are here. Other iterations of MLSE have demanded far worse from their GMs. Having to wait to make a move is a small sacrifice in the bigger picture of things.

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

[Bear]

Demar for the 4
Lowry, ross and 20 for lawson and the 7th
Ppat for the 8th

Draft.
Winslow
Mario
Kamemski

Sign corey joseph

Cj
Mario
Winslow
Kamenski
Jv

[GLF]

Even Chad Ford said NYK are looking to deal their pick for a young vet All Star caliber player, so that's who would be willing to give up their pick for Demar. Not just us crazy forum posters making that up. Just like Cleveland did with Love, they'd want DD to commit to resigning there after the season before finalizing the trade, it happens all the time so not a huge hurdle.

The Raps would absolutely move DD or Lowry before the ASG, who gives a shit about the ASG? Whoever is the best player on the Raptors will get voted in, it doesn't need to be DD or Lowry, the Canadian fans will just overwhelm the ballot box like they did for Lowry this year, so much so that Lowry was the freaking starter. I'd also be inclined to keep Lowry, to that's your Raptor All Star right there.

If Masai bases any of his decisions on the fact the ASG will be in Toronto then he's an incompetent dolt. The ASG being in Toronto means nothing except a bunch of hotels and restaurants having a good business weekend. It's just silly to think it's some showcase for the organization when every team comes to Toronto every year to play the Raps already.

He is an incompetent dolt. If y'all haven't seen that yet well good luck for the rest of the offseason. He kept Casey and it looks like he's going to keep Lou Will as well. None of those moves are going to help us get away from the whole ISO thing that got us into trouble all last season. It also doesn't help us improve our defense either.

[Nilanka]

Even Chad Ford said NYK are looking to deal their pick for a young vet All Star caliber player, so that's who would be willing to give up their pick for Demar. Not just us crazy forum posters making that up. Just like Cleveland did with Love, they'd want DD to commit to resigning there after the season before finalizing the trade, it happens all the time so not a huge hurdle.

The Raps would absolutely move DD or Lowry before the ASG, who gives a shit about the ASG? Whoever is the best player on the Raptors will get voted in, it doesn't need to be DD or Lowry, the Canadian fans will just overwhelm the ballot box like they did for Lowry this year, so much so that Lowry was the freaking starter. I'd also be inclined to keep Lowry, to that's your Raptor All Star right there.

If Masai bases any of his decisions on the fact the ASG will be in Toronto then he's an incompetent dolt. The ASG being in Toronto means nothing except a bunch of hotels and restaurants having a good business weekend. It's just silly to think it's some showcase for the organization when every team comes to Toronto every year to play the Raps already.

Agree that no personnel decisions should have anything to do with the ASG. The ASG is a sideshow. It literally means nothing.

But disagree that just any Raptor starter would make the ASG. Lowry got his share of worldwide votes because he was one of the best PGs in the league for the first few months of the season. The Harper and Bieber endorsements helped, but I highly doubt Jonas starts next year unless he plays well enough to be in consideration. There aren't enough Canadian basketball fans to make that much of an impact. We're not talking China and Yao Ming here.

[Primer]

Wow. Just wow. I guess people are bored.

No one has forgotten how talented Ross is. In fact we all acknowledge his potential, but the people who would prefer that he is traded, or benched question if he has the motivation or drive to perform on a consistent basis.

Question: How many points did Ross score the game after tying the points record?

Answer: 10 points, next game 12, game after that 18, then 8,5,7,9... This season was more of the same.

The issues with Val are overblown. If Ross ETAL played decent perimeter defense guards and wings wouldn't have so much downhill momentum by the time that they reached Val. Val is in the top half of starting Centers in the league -- not bad for a young, developing C.

The trade is ridiculous and makes little sense for the Raps or any team they would trade with. I like WCS and Winslow, but Stein is years behind JV in development and the Winslow trade is fantasy.

Teams in the lottery want control. Who in the lottery is giving that up for a year (or 2) of Demar? Not to mention the Raps are not moving Lowry or DD before the ASG.

Also, remember when you talk about trading NBA players for draft picks, the NBA players are being compared with other NBA players. Meanwhile, the college players are succeeding against College players -- most of which will never play basketball beyond college. Everything is relative. Demar is a known asset. Is he perfect? Hell no. But he's a better known asset than a draft pick. If the point is to tank, that's one thing, but that's definitely not an option the year that the team is hosting All-Star weekend.

Even Chad Ford said NYK are looking to deal their pick for a young vet All Star caliber player, so that's who would be willing to give up their pick for Demar. Not just us crazy forum posters making that up. Just like Cleveland did with Love, they'd want DD to commit to resigning there after the season before finalizing the trade, it happens all the time so not a huge hurdle.

The Raps would absolutely move DD or Lowry before the ASG, who gives a shit about the ASG? Whoever is the best player on the Raptors will get voted in, it doesn't need to be DD or Lowry, the Canadian fans will just overwhelm the ballot box like they did for Lowry this year, so much so that Lowry was the freaking starter. I'd also be inclined to keep Lowry, to that's your Raptor All Star right there.

If Masai bases any of his decisions on the fact the ASG will be in Toronto then he's an incompetent dolt. The ASG being in Toronto means nothing except a bunch of hotels and restaurants having a good business weekend. It's just silly to think it's some showcase for the organization when every team comes to Toronto every year to play the Raps already.

[blackjitsu]

I think you all forgot that he holds franchise record for most points
There is do doubt he has regressed but it's to early to pull the plug on him after this season if he sucks s/t but he has incredible potential and we have seen it more than val. Problem with Val is he just doesn't fit it the league (well at least as a cornerstone)
He is slow can't protect the rim.
wBigs nowadays are fast rim protectors anything else is ineffective or just doesn't work
I say trade val for wille Caulley stein and trade Demar for Winslow because he is gonna be amazing!!

Wow. Just wow. I guess people are bored.

No one has forgotten how talented Ross is. In fact we all acknowledge his potential, but the people who would prefer that he is traded, or benched question if he has the motivation or drive to perform on a consistent basis.

Question: How many points did Ross score the game after tying the points record?

Answer: 10 points, next game 12, game after that 18, then 8,5,7,9... This season was more of the same.

The issues with Val are overblown. If Ross ETAL played decent perimeter defense guards and wings wouldn't have so much downhill momentum by the time that they reached Val. Val is in the top half of starting Centers in the league -- not bad for a young, developing C.

The trade is ridiculous and makes little sense for the Raps or any team they would trade with. I like WCS and Winslow, but Stein is years behind JV in development and the Winslow trade is fantasy.

Teams in the lottery want control. Who in the lottery is giving that up for a year (or 2) of Demar? Not to mention the Raps are not moving Lowry or DD before the ASG.

Also, remember when you talk about trading NBA players for draft picks, the NBA players are being compared with other NBA players. Meanwhile, the college players are succeeding against College players -- most of which will never play basketball beyond college. Everything is relative. Demar is a known asset. Is he perfect? Hell no. But he's a better known asset than a draft pick. If the point is to tank, that's one thing, but that's definitely not an option the year that the team is hosting All-Star weekend.

[Rustyy]

Trade JV for Cauley Stein? Lol he's going to be a bust, why would we need him?