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OFFICIAL: James Johnson sent to Kings for 2nd Rounder

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  • malefax wrote: View Post
    In hindsight, sure, he could have traded bosh at some point for more than 2 draft picks. But he chose to instead use Bosh: have him play on the team. And that decision didn't turn out great. But I have no problem with making a decision that turns out badly if the choice was sensible at the time. Trading an all-star away in his prime is not usually a good move, unless you get a package like Utah or Denver got. I doubt anything remotely like that was ever on the table for Bosh.

    Your point about some assets appreciating over time is a perfectly good one. Not too many of Colangelo's pickups seem to have appreciated much: Amir Johnson is maybe the biggest exception. But it is disappointing that Bayless and Johnson didn't turn out to be much. Disappointing, but not super surprising: Colangelo got them for peanuts, and there was never much chance of them being huge contributors.
    +1 They weren't big time impact contributors, but they had quality games in to help the team, all for what? Norris Cole and Jarrett Jack-up-shots?

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    • Craiger wrote: View Post
      not accurate.

      They got Miami's pick, which they traded for James Johnsons to Chicago, who was then traded for a 2nd round pick.

      The Raps didn't get JV from their pick being returned. It was lottery protected, so what they have gotten back so far is 2 2nd round picks (which they would have lost to Miami due to the lottery protection).
      2010-07-10 Raptors 2011 first round pick (#5-Jonas Valanciunas), 2011 first round pick (lottery protected in 2011, else cash) (#28 Norris Cole), $4.2M trade exception Chris Bosh trade with Heat
      I believe the trade exception should read 14.2 mil
      http://www.prosportstransactions.com...arch&start=125
      Last edited by jbml; Mon Jul 16, 2012, 10:23 PM.

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      • malefax wrote: View Post
        In hindsight, sure, he could have traded bosh at some point for more than 2 draft picks. But he chose to instead use Bosh: have him play on the team. And that decision didn't turn out great. But I have no problem with making a decision that turns out badly if the choice was sensible at the time. Trading an all-star away in his prime is not usually a good move, unless you get a package like Utah or Denver got. I doubt anything remotely like that was ever on the table for Bosh.

        Your point about some assets appreciating over time is a perfectly good one. Not too many of Colangelo's pickups seem to have appreciated much: Amir Johnson is maybe the biggest exception. But it is disappointing that Bayless and Johnson didn't turn out to be much. Disappointing, but not super surprising: Colangelo got them for peanuts, and there was never much chance of them being huge contributors.
        hindsight isn't important. You said assets depreciate over time. I was pointing out they don't have to. The reasons the depreciation happens is because the managers miss out on value. Or perhaps worded more accurately they allow them to depreciate.

        Now you may have no problem with a decision you see as sensible at the time, but I'd say I have a problem with a decision I don't see as sensible at the time. And there is no shortage of decisions different people though were insensible at the time.

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        • jbml wrote: View Post
          I believe the trade exception should read 14.2 mil
          http://www.prosportstransactions.com...arch&start=125
          that record is not precise.

          As I said they did get their pick back, but it was lottery protected anyways and since the Raps were the 3rd worst team in the league that year it was not going to Miami. It was protected for 5 years, with Miami getting a 2nd round pick. So had the Bosh sign and trade not happened, the Raps would have still been able to draft Jonas.

          The deal also calls for Toronto to get the league's maximum allowed in cash considerations ($3 million) and for the Heat to land a conditional first-round pick to come sometime between 2010 and 2015. It's lottery-protected, essentially meaning the first time the Raptors make the playoffs after this season, their first-rounder goes to Miami.

          If Miami does not get that first-round pick in 2010, it will get an additional second-round pick that year.
          http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3905146

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          • for any cap-ologists out there.. how or does this $2.8 million affect the raps? Are we still over the cap (and then get to use the MLE) or now below the cap (and able to use the barbosa trade exception)?

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            • Craiger wrote: View Post
              hindsight isn't important. You said assets depreciate over time. I was pointing out they don't have to. The reasons the depreciation happens is because the managers miss out on value. Or perhaps worded more accurately they allow them to depreciate.
              I remember the Raptors contending for a playoff spot, actually being in the playoff standings during the trade deadline. It's also about the timing of buying and selling. BC could have sold him for much more but instead chose to remain in the hunt for the playoffs.

              Bosh, coincidentally, got injured the last month of regular season. The Raptors struggled and lost out to the Bulls the last game of the season. That's all she wrote. I can't blame the GM too much since it was a matter of deciding between rebuilding or staying in contention -- midway through the season, where the Raptors were very much alive in the playoff hunt.

              It was a gamble and he lost; partly because of misjudgment and partly because of fate.


              -- Charles Barkley

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              • JStockton wrote: View Post
                Isn't that what BC did? He overpayed for Fields, who in most circles can be defined as a quality player.

                So you're saying we should've kept JJ, not sign Fields and gotten Thabo instead (who I believe is not on the trading block)? How can we calculate the payroll if you're suggesting a line-up of only 5 players??? That is indeed intriguing.
                no thats not wat i said, if we are going to waste money on some one like fields who we believe has the POTENTIAL to be MEDIOCRE and will never justify his contract. and by no means i am saying we should keep jj. but instead, we could have dumped all da expiring salary like jj, jose, eddie, forbes and other small assets to atlanta( which is exactly what Brooklyn did) for Joe Johnson.
                this is exactly how competitive teams are built, not by paying nash and fields a total of close to 60 mil over 3 years!!!

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                • Letter N wrote: View Post
                  Is this the latest one we're going to go with. I just want to know in case someone asks, we should all have our story straight.
                  Are you denying that didnt happen?
                  @RavNation

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                  • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                    for any cap-ologists out there.. how or does this $2.8 million affect the raps? Are we still over the cap (and then get to use the MLE) or now below the cap (and able to use the barbosa trade exception)?
                    I'd have to double-check, but I think the Raps are hovering right around the cap, now that JJ is gone and Acy has signed (I didn't hear any details, but read on Raps PR twitter that he had signed). Regardless, I don't believe there is any way for the Raps to regain either the full MLE or the Barbosa TPE - I believe they permanently lost both as soon as the Fields signing was finalized.

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                    • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      I'd have to double-check, but I think the Raps are hovering right around the cap, now that JJ is gone and Acy has signed (I didn't hear any details, but read on Raps PR twitter that he had signed). Regardless, I don't believe there is any way for the Raps to regain either the full MLE or the Barbosa TPE - I believe they permanently lost both as soon as the Fields signing was finalized.
                      I am surprised BC isnt amnestying anyone, specifically Amir. Great bench player, not worth the $6 mill hit though.
                      @RavNation

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                      • YYZ wrote: View Post
                        I am surprised BC isnt amnestying anyone, specifically Amir. Great bench player, not worth the $6 mill hit though.
                        I'm assuming a trade will be made that involves either Amir or Davis, so no point using amnesty, since we'll need one of them at backup PF. Besides, unless there's a big signing/trade that is imminent, there's no point to rush to use the amnesty now. I think they'll probably just keep it for next offseason, when they could still use it on Amir/Kleiza.

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                        • ball4life wrote: View Post
                          no thats not wat i said, if we are going to waste money on some one like fields who we believe has the POTENTIAL to be MEDIOCRE and will never justify his contract. and by no means i am saying we should keep jj. but instead, we could have dumped all da expiring salary like jj, jose, eddie, forbes and other small assets to atlanta( which is exactly what Brooklyn did) for Joe Johnson.
                          this is exactly how competitive teams are built, not by paying nash and fields a total of close to 60 mil over 3 years!!!
                          My memory might be failing me, but what competitive team with no all-star already there was built by trading for someone they'll have to pay close to 90 million over 4 years starting when that guy is already 31 untill he is almost 35; a player who looks past his peak and in two years (when he still has two years left on his albatros contract) will be top 10 among active players in total minutes played? I'm not exactly wondering why Atlanta traded him.

                          Maybe signing Nash and Fields was not a good idea, but trading for Johnson certainly wasn't.

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                          • JJ is a dam good player and who said he went 29th overall, he went 16th...why ppl hating on his offensive game? what u wanna see? lebron james style dunk, 3 pointers from halfcourt, jump from the free line throw all day...is that consider good offense to ppl when they talkign about how he lacked offensively. JJ had greattttt Defense and GOOD offense dont know what you all talkign about...wayy better than Linas Klieza, mr. brickcity european player who fell on his ass when he was trying to do some post moves. If Klieza could play for the raptors like how he played for Denver then I wouldn't care bout JJ but this is a BADDDDD TRADE.BC just trying to look busy so he dont lose his job, JJ is gona kill the raptors when they play the kings.

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                            • Why am I complaining? This guy is gone...too bad he would've done well this year for us too.

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                              • Yes yes, Kleiza is European, at least you got that right.

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