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OFFICIAL: James Johnson sent to Kings for 2nd Rounder

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  • #76
    A couple of things, I'm a little disappointed in this trade, although it was expected that JJ was eventually going to be dealt, I felt it was going to be a part of a bigger trade.

    Also, expect Jose to be with this team come October, for the simple reason Casey wants and expects him back.

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    • #77
      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
      Prior to the JJ trade, the Raps were pretty much right on the salary cap line (excluding any remaining cap-holds and remembering that Gray hasn't yet been officially re-signed, to my knowledge).

      1. JJ out --> frees up $2.8M cap space
      2. Calderon out --> frees up $10.6M cap space ($13.4M total cap space)
      3a. Davis out ---> frees up $2.2M cap space ($15.6M total cap space)
      3b. Iguodala in --> eats up $14.7M cap space ($0.9M total cap space)

      This would be dependent on the Calderon trade bringing back no more than $0.9M net salary. Carter's contract in non-guaranteed ($2M buyout), so if Toronto got Carter and waived him, they'd have enough cap space to simply trade Davis a 2x 2nd round picks to Philly for Iguodala.
      As long as the Raptors have enough cap space for Iggy ($14.7M), by combining cap space available prior to the trade with whatever salary goes out as part of the trade, then it would work just fine. In addition to Davis and the 2x 2nd round picks, Philly would also wind up with a $12.5M TPE.

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      • #78
        thead wrote: View Post
        Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun

        Johnson move all about locker room culture not talent. Didn't mesh with Casey Has talent but doesn't know how to use it properly yet as well
        That's it, +1. Took me a while to get through this whole thread, but this is really it. Johnson was gone no matter what after the thing with Casey. This was his value (2nd rounder) around the league. There's really no need to analyze further.

        I liked JJ's game a lot, personally, but it was obvious that there was a problem attitude-wise after he came back from the suspension -- everything was supposedly water under the bridge, yet he still didn't play nearly as much as he had prior to the dispute with Casey. Once a player is that far into the doghouse, it's pretty hard not to get rid of him. Plus, as mentioned above, he's not that young anymore (26), so 'potential' isn't an issue and other teams won't be as excited to trade a player for him.

        It's 2.8M they don't have to spend this year, which is "return" in itself, better than getting a marginal player back, as would have been the case in this instance ("equal value" for JJ? who would that be, maybe Hassan Whiteside? you wanna pay him instead?). The 2nd rounder is trade fodder if they choose not to use it themselves, but either way, the money is what this was about.
        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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        • #79
          Quick question:

          What if there is no "bigger deal"? What if Colangelo has no aces up his sleeve or this move is not part of a bigger picture or series of acquisitions?

          What if it is simply the Raps trading away J.Johnson for a 2nd round pick?

          If it is exactly what it is, is this a bad trade?

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          • #80
            heinz57 wrote: View Post
            i liked JJ at times... just like i did with Jamario Moon

            he does come pretty close to Jamario's PGC stats though... (Per Game Cringes)

            all he needs to do is release a dirty hick rap video, and he'll make a full transition into Jamarionism

            Best lines were J-Lunar's, "shee shee ,*click* *click* hol up dawg, did u hear dat?", Jiggaboo killed this track. NAWTT.
            NBADoppelgangers.tumblr.com

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            • #81
              pillowmint wrote: View Post
              What would JJ in a trade be worth to you? What would you need to see happen in order to trade JJ. Or do you think his value to the Raps is untradable? I'd like to know, and I promise it isn't a judgement.
              jimmie wrote: View Post
              This was his value (2nd rounder) around the league. There's really no need to analyze further.
              Keeping in mind we traded a Late First Rounder to acquire him ... and his Value did NOT get worse since acquiring him; I do not buy that the most we could get for him for a Future 2nd Rounder.

              The ~$3M has to be what did it. There has to be something else.
              I refuse to believe that BC would give up a First Rounder only to receive a Second Rounder for it. Thats very unBC like.
              Last edited by Joey; Mon Jul 16, 2012, 12:28 PM.

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              • #82
                sleepz wrote: View Post
                Quick question:

                What if there is no "bigger deal"? What if Colangelo has no aces up his sleeve or this move is not part of a bigger picture or series of acquisitions?

                What if it is simply the Raps trading away J.Johnson for a 2nd round pick?

                If it is exactly what it is, is this a bad trade?
                The alternative is playing Johnson in garbage time, thus reducing his value even more, and then trading him for some pocket lint come February.

                Fields is the better overall player (and now has a contract that warrants playing him), and Kleiza seems to be rounding into his pre-injury form (i.e. the guy Colangelo envisioned when first signing him).

                Where was the space for Johnson?

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                • #83
                  Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  That's just it, when we compare Johnson to other Raptor players (who aren't exactly standouts themselves), he comes across as as serviceable player.

                  But instead, we should be comparing Johnson to starters on good teams.

                  We wouldn't be able to get much for Amir/Gray either, and I'd be very surprised if even Calderon nets us anything worthwhile.

                  This seems to a rude awakening for us Raptor fans. We over-achieved quite a bit last season, but the individual parts have very little value.
                  That's the problem with this team. You need elite talent to win consistently and the Raps don't have it.

                  As it's an organization, it is hard to point out one dude, but since Colangelo has been here he has not drafted, traded for or signed a player approaching all-star status let alone obatin one that is an actual all-star or elite type player.

                  Will that change with the acquisition of Lowry and JV? Perhaps, however unless he can make those type of moves (ideal way is thru the draft imo) this team will have difficulty moving up in the conference and would indicate to me that BC is well-overpaid based on the results of the teams he has personally assembled.

                  Forget the JJ's and Landry Fields of the world. BC needs to find a way to get upper level talent, othrewise the mediocrity mill will continue to churn away.

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                  • #84
                    I'm in on the DC era. But when you take the only SF capable of playing a minute in the NBA and piss him off to the point that he needs to be traded, that's an issue. I don't have a problem with this incident in isolation, but we're not in a position where the coach can ship out talent due to personal disputes. Just something to keep an eye on.

                    And hey that RFA that we overpaided by 10 mil can play out of position right? What a great plan!

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                    • #85
                      joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                      Keeping in mind we traded a Late First Rounder to acquire him ... and his Value did NOT get worse since acquiring him; I do not buy that the most we could get for him for a Future 2nd Rounder.

                      The ~$3M has to be what did it. There has to be something else.
                      I refuse to believe that BC would admit defeat on this trade. he gave up a First Rounder, only to receive a Second Rounder? Thats very unBC like.
                      Aren't we splitting hairs just a tad trying to determine the difference in value between a 27th pick, and a 30-37th pick (i.e. where ever Sacramento ends up)?

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                      • #86
                        Nilanka wrote: View Post
                        The alternative is playing Johnson in garbage time, thus reducing his value even more, and then trading him for some pocket lint come February.
                        No such thing as "Lower Value than a Future 2nd Round Pick". Thats the Lowest of the Low.

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                        • #87
                          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                          Keeping in mind we traded a Late First Rounder to acquire him ... and his Value did NOT get worse since acquiring him; I find this hard to believe.
                          How did his value "not get worse"? Other than the fact it was rock-bottom to begin with, I suppose you could make the argument that his value to the Raptors may have increased -- but then it dropped again after the thing with Casey. Value changes for a lot of reasons, and is often different inside and outside an organization, as well.

                          I have no problem with the idea that JJ was only worth a 2nd rounder to other teams at this point in time -- and remember, to Toronto, that value is a 2nd-rounder + 2.8M in spending money.

                          I'm never sure what fans are thinking when they suspect they know more about a player's value around the league than GMs do.
                          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                          • #88
                            sleepz wrote: View Post
                            Quick question:

                            What if there is no "bigger deal"? What if Colangelo has no aces up his sleeve or this move is not part of a bigger picture or series of acquisitions?

                            What if it is simply the Raps trading away J.Johnson for a 2nd round pick?

                            If it is exactly what it is, is this a bad trade?
                            IMO, JJ is not necessary and wouldn't improve a Fields / Kleiza rotation at the 3 position. Beyond that, the Raptors' coach and GM obviously didn't like JJ as much, and much of that might have been related to his attitude and fit within the team culture. I'm giving Casey the benefit of the doubt on this one. I am sure that Colangelo got as good a return as possible in trading him. So, no, I don't think this is a "bad trade". It was a necessary trade.

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                            • #89
                              joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                              Keeping in mind we traded a Late First Rounder to acquire him ... and his Value did NOT get worse since acquiring him; I do not buy that the most we could get for him for a Future 2nd Rounder.

                              The ~$3M has to be what did it. There has to be something else.
                              I refuse to believe that BC would give up a First Rounder only to receive a Second Rounder for it. Thats very unBC like.
                              BC traded the #29 pick for JJ; at the time, most people were furious with the pick. It wasn't until JJ started getting some burn and showed himself to be the SF version of Reggie, that Toronto fans took to him and likely inflated his true value.

                              If Sacramento ends up in the bottom 10 in the league, then the pick would fall someplace between #31 - #40, which means that they'd only be dropping the pick about 10 spots (or less).

                              Given the fact that JJ hasn't done anything to show that he is a legit starter (he is ideally a good 2nd unit rotation player), combined with the fact that he'll be looking for a raise after the season, I think an early 2nd round pick (and freeing up $2.8M cap space) is a great return.

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                              • #90
                                joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                                No such thing as "Lower Value than a Future 2nd Round Pick". Thats the Lowest of the Low.
                                Nope. A 2nd rounder (non-guaranteed) is worth more in terms of cap flex than a late 1st (guaranteed). So maybe BC actually traded up? ;-)
                                Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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