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  • tucas wrote: View Post
    Lol yes it did. The trade was Miami's first rounder which we traded to get James Johnson the TPE and the raptors draft pick which we had previously sent to Miami in another trade. Can't remember which one off the top of my head though.
    JO/Marion

    Comment


    • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
      i think that until bosh and lebron did the runner that most if not all players took the extra years and the money it guaranteed them. we aren't privy to the conversations that bc had with bosh. this is basically a he says she says kind of thing. we can believe bosh "really" thought about going to a different city or we can believe that bc "really" thought bosh was coming back. i choose to believe that bosh/lebron/wade had planned this from there usa teaming to get together. i don't fault them for doing it. lebron tried to get bosh to the cavs before bailing on them, bosh was busy trying to make himself usa famous with his reality show.

      could we have gotten more, yes, the rockets trade was nice and i think that if there was a second chance that offer would have been taken now. i am at work now but if someone can go over the years of players running from max term/max money deals in the past 30 years we can see if this was a ground breaking moment or if it was just rose coloured glasses from our management.
      It was unprecedented.

      Comment


      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Simmer down now.

        Where did I say Bosh would not leave?

        I said fans would have lost their mind had best player been dealt while still playoff bound. Raps stI'll only missed playoffs on last game of season.

        I also said raps nEver would have got fair market value because he refused an extension with ANYONE.

        I also said that everything Bosh said publicly (max $ possible, be the man) went against what he actually did.

        At no point did I say there was no possibility of him leaving.
        No need for me to 'simmer down' as I'm not 'simmered up'. But your concern is noted.

        Glad you recognized I wasn't using hindsight though

        Comment


        • John Lucas III would occupy the 15th spot right?

          Comment


          • tucas wrote: View Post
            Lol yes it did. The trade was Miami's first rounder which we traded to get James Johnson the TPE and the raptors draft pick which we had previously sent to Miami in another trade. Can't remember which one off the top of my head though.
            it didn't.

            The Raps received their pick back yes. But the pick was lottery protected, and the raps were in the lottery. So they would have been able to draft Jonas regardless of a Bosh sign and trade or not.

            And right there all credibility lost.
            "Credibility" regained......

            Comment


            • Craiger wrote: View Post
              No need for me to 'simmer down' as I'm not 'simmered up'. But your concern is noted.

              Glad you recognized I wasn't using hindsight though
              And if he would have signed extension???? Raps would have got pennies on the dollar and immediately thrown in playoff towel while still battling for 6-8 seed.

              Yeah, but, but he never resigned!

              Ahhhhhhh! Hindsight!

              Comment


              • Craiger wrote: View Post
                it didn't.

                The Raps received their pick back yes. But the pick was lottery protected, and the raps were in the lottery. So they would have been able to draft Jonas regardless of a Bosh sign and trade or not.



                "Credibility" regained......
                Well you got me there indeed.

                Comment


                • tucas wrote: View Post
                  Lol yes it did. The trade was Miami's first rounder which we traded to get James Johnson the TPE and the raptors draft pick which we had previously sent to Miami in another trade. Can't remember which one off the top of my head though.
                  Sorry guys...as much as i would like to put a silver lining on the bosh trade, as has been pointed out in other threads, regardless of whether or not we got the pick back in the Miami trade, we would have been able to use it to pick JV anyways. The pick was lottery protected so it would have defaulted to us any year we didn't make the playoffs. Sorry for the run on sentence as well.

                  edit. i have been beaten to the punch

                  Comment


                  • Craiger wrote: View Post
                    it didn't.

                    The Raps received their pick back yes. But the pick was lottery protected, and the raps were in the lottery. So they would have been able to draft Jonas regardless of a Bosh sign and trade or not.



                    "Credibility" regained......
                    Lol well you got me there.... Shoulda figured raptors wouldn't be stupid enough to give away an unprotected pick for those guys.

                    Comment


                    • I get it... people were expecting radical change. Steve Nash was going to parachute in and using his Captain Canada powers magically lure Andre Igoudala into our starting 3 role. I completely understand the sentiment. After a few years in the wilderness I expected some serious upgrades. The thing is though I was wrong to ever expect it because the rules of free agency have not changed. If you look where all the free agents go they are like moths to a flame. NYK, BKY, MIA, BOS, LAC, LAL, DAL are already good teams. Nobody wants to go to a losing situation when they have the choice. We thought we could skip ahead a few steps but I, and I think everyone else that thought that way was wrong.

                      By position

                      PG: Nobody here denies that Kyle Lowry is a SERIOUS upgrade to Jose Calderon in our defensive system. Kyle Lowry was on pace for an all star season before his infection. Jose Calderon coming off the bench is really where he always should have been. He will be able to dismantle the second unit of other teams, and keep the offense going when others hit the bench. Nobody will dispute Calderon is better than Bayless in every way that isn't defense.

                      SG: The natural progression of DeMar DeRozan entering a contract a year will be big. Adding Terrence Ross into the mix is already an upgrade to Gary Forbes and he hasn't even played an NBA game yet. Consider this an upgrade.

                      SF: Kleiza is a very good player. People roast him but try going through microfracture surgery sometime and tell me how your first season back goes. Watched him in international play and he is shooting up a storm, has great bounce again and moving his feet really well. Upgrade based solely on health alone. Landry Fields, in a player whose impact will not always be seen on the box score. He is as we have all including Colangelo, overpaid. If you look at some of the contracts handed out..(Lopez max deal) (Hump 12million per) (Green 10million after heart surgery) if you don't overpay you don't get free agents...period. Fields is also an upgrade over James Johnson not that he will put up better stats but he won't make the same mistakes.

                      PF: Ed Davis looks great...and if doesn't play that way we drafted an animal in Quincy Acy that would love to eat his minutes. Bargnani took the summer off from the National team (which if you know Bargnani is huge deal for him) In order to ensure he is perfectly healthy this year. He looks like a borderline all star this year, and we saw the character of the man when he limped off the court in Utah. By virtue of health (Bargnani) Improvement (Davis) and Grit (Acy) this position is improved.

                      C: JV17 will have an immeadiate impact. You can't play with his motor and not have an effect on your team. Gray is back as a stop gap, and Amir can play the 5 in small ball scenarios which the league is gravitating towards.
                      Consider this an upgrade.


                      NOW...to those saying that we shouldn't be happy with a first round playoff exit this year. You are just plain wrong. We should happy with exactly that. Because having run up stairs a few times in my day I know if you try and skip too many steps you fall flat on your face. If we manage to put together a good show in a first round playoff exit, suddenly free agents will go...hmmmm team is on the way up...If I joined I might be able to take them to the next level. Your own potential RFAs think, this team has a future and will still pay me, and won't be looking to bolt ala Batum. WE CAN NOT SKIP THE STEP THAT BOTH CHICAGO AND INDIANA went through which is knocking on the playoff door telling everyone we are here to stay and attracting better talent in the 2012/2013 offseason...which we will again have up to 17 million in flexibility.
                      For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

                      Comment


                      • someone edit that for me. I'm tired after writing it
                        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

                        Comment


                        • sleepz wrote: View Post
                          Glen Grunwald. - Vince Carter
                          I.Thomas - Tracy McGrady
                          R.Babcok - Chris Bosh

                          I named you 3.
                          why don't you compare those 3 drafts to recent ones. Barely comparable not many good players were available at our spot and BC overall is a better GM than those 3 how long did Thomas and Babcock last? not very long.

                          Comment


                          • thead wrote: View Post
                            I get it... people were expecting radical change. Steve Nash was going to parachute in and using his Captain Canada powers magically lure Andre Igoudala into our starting 3 role. I completely understand the sentiment. After a few years in the wilderness I expected some serious upgrades. The thing is though I was wrong to ever expect it because the rules of free agency have not changed. If you look where all the free agents go they are like moths to a flame. NYK, BKY, MIA, BOS, LAC, LAL, DAL are already good teams. Nobody wants to go to a losing situation when they have the choice. We thought we could skip ahead a few steps but I, and I think everyone else that thought that way was wrong.

                            By position

                            PG: Nobody here denies that Kyle Lowry is a SERIOUS upgrade to Jose Calderon in our defensive system. Kyle Lowry was on pace for an all star season before his infection. Jose Calderon coming off the bench is really where he always should have been. He will be able to dismantle the second unit of other teams, and keep the offense going when others hit the bench. Nobody will dispute Calderon is better than Bayless in every way that isn't defense.

                            SG: The natural progression of DeMar DeRozan entering a contract a year will be big. Adding Terrence Ross into the mix is already an upgrade to Gary Forbes and he hasn't even played an NBA game yet. Consider this an upgrade.

                            SF: Kleiza is a very good player. People roast him but try going through microfracture surgery sometime and tell me how your first season back goes. Watched him in international play and he is shooting up a storm, has great bounce again and moving his feet really well. Upgrade based solely on health alone. Landry Fields, in a player whose impact will not always be seen on the box score. He is as we have all including Colangelo, overpaid. If you look at some of the contracts handed out..(Lopez max deal) (Hump 12million per) (Green 10million after heart surgery) if you don't overpay you don't get free agents...period. Fields is also an upgrade over James Johnson not that he will put up better stats but he won't make the same mistakes.

                            PF: Ed Davis looks great...and if doesn't play that way we drafted an animal in Quincy Acy that would love to eat his minutes. Bargnani took the summer off from the National team (which if you know Bargnani is huge deal for him) In order to ensure he is perfectly healthy this year. He looks like a borderline all star this year, and we saw the character of the man when he limped off the court in Utah. By virtue of health (Bargnani) Improvement (Davis) and Grit (Acy) this position is improved.

                            C: JV17 will have an immeadiate impact. You can't play with his motor and not have an effect on your team. Gray is back as a stop gap, and Amir can play the 5 in small ball scenarios which the league is gravitating towards.
                            Consider this an upgrade.


                            NOW...to those saying that we shouldn't be happy with a first round playoff exit this year. You are just plain wrong. We should happy with exactly that. Because having run up stairs a few times in my day I know if you try and skip too many steps you fall flat on your face. If we manage to put together a good show in a first round playoff exit, suddenly free agents will go...hmmmm team is on the way up...If I joined I might be able to take them to the next level. Your own potential RFAs think, this team has a future and will still pay me, and won't be looking to bolt ala Batum. WE CAN NOT SKIP THE STEP THAT BOTH CHICAGO AND INDIANA went through which is knocking on the playoff door telling everyone we are here to stay and attracting better talent in the 2012/2013 offseason...which we will again have up to 17 million in flexibility.
                            Nice post.

                            Not comparing TOR & OKC but OKC also took that 1st round exit to get to where they are today.

                            Comment


                            • slaw wrote: View Post
                              In fairness, I kinda thought 7 years might be long enough to figure things out. Or are we in year 1 again? Year 2? Second or third rebuild? I get so confused with the shifting goalposts for this team....
                              its the 2nd rebuild its not hard really. In case you forgot chris bosh left, and we've been rebuilding since. If you don't have patience to watch this team build and grow organically no ones forcing you to watch. Go watch a team like the Knicks who buy players and become playoff contenders over night. We don't have that type of rep and appeal so we cant use that route, we gotta do it old fashion way and its working. an 8th seed in the playoffs would provide tons of experience and it will help us get better as a team. You think just cause we make the 8th spot we'll stay there? i'm counting on us improving year by year and our rank in the playoffs increasing till we're at out peak.

                              Comment


                              • NoBan wrote: View Post
                                I really find it strange those people that think Bosh leaving constitutes a fresh slate for BC. Or that Bosh's departure should be some type of excuse for the losing that followed.

                                He completely botched the Bosh situation and thus set us back 2 or 3 seasons. It's a black mark on this tenure, not a reason for patience.
                                it doesn't help that bosh is like "oh i'll probably be back next season" if he was straight up and told BC he wanted a trade we could've gotten some good pieces for him. Its not entirely his fault, he pulled a lebron instead of a melo.

                                Comment

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