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Youth and Financial Freedom: Raps current roster beyond 2012-13

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  • Youth and Financial Freedom: Raps current roster beyond 2012-13

    *I have been intending to make this post but no access to keyboard for last week so here goes as I have one at my finger tips now*

    I've made no secret I like what the Raptors have done thus far this off season. In my opinion, the Raps are younger, deeper, and (most importantly) better than they were on April 26, 2012 (last day of season).

    When looking at the roster, 2 things stand out: youth and money.

    #1) Youth - players signed beyond 2012-13 (all ages as of December 31, 2012):

    Gray 28
    Bargnani 27
    Kleiza 27
    Lowry 26
    Amir 25
    Fields 24
    ED 23
    DD* 23
    Acy 22
    TR 21
    JV 20

    *qualifying offer


    #2) Money

    Gray* $3m
    Bargnani $10.75m
    Kleiza** $4.6m
    Lowry $6.2m
    Amir $6.55m
    Fields $6.3m
    ED $3.158m
    Acy* $900k
    TR $2.232
    JV $2.938

    TOTAL: $46.628 in committed salaries for 2013-14 for 10 players.

    DD: qualifying offer - $4.531m; cap hold - $10.03M

    Raptors also hold amnesty that could be used on Bargnani, Kleiza, or Amir to free up nearly $5-$11m.

    Cap Space: depends on what happens with DD, amnesty, and BRI split. Current salary cap is $58M. Lots of young players under contract and only $46.628M in committed salary - key (and dreaded) word is flexibility.

    *estimating contract
    ** assuming option picked up.


    Assuming the Raptors do not make any significant additions in salary this summer or before trade deadline, Raps are likely to find themselves in a very similar situation next year:
    - young and improving team
    - cap flexibilty


    People will likely groan (and rightfully so) because all this flexibility has gone for nothing thus far. 2 rays of hope:
    1) new punitive tax starts in 2013-14 and might be last chance for a treadmill team (Grizz, Philly, whoever) or team going nowhere to unload contracts before more punitive tax kicks in,
    2) luxury tax teams can no longer execute sign and trades after this summer (limited to $3m mini-MLE or minimum contracts).


    Some things that do concern me:
    1) Still no legit franchise talent (Bargnani, JV, or Ross please prove me wrong - or BC cash in some chips and get one!)
    2) playoffs far from a certainty in 2012-13 but a bottom 10 team seems unlikely as well - worst case scenario, just miss the playoffs and lose a 12-14 pick.


    My ultimate wet dream*:
    1) trade for AI sooner than later,
    2) when AI's contract comes off the books, sign Paul George as free agent.

    *ultimate wet dream - let me dream in peace.


    Putting it all together, things are not perfect but things are not near bad, in my opinion, either.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Jul 19, 2012, 09:59 PM.

  • #2
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    *I have been intending to make this post but no access to keyboard for last week so here goes as I have one at my finger tips now*

    I've made no secret I like what the Raptors have done thus far this off season. In my opinion, the Raps are younger, deeper, and (most importantly) better than they were on April 26, 2012 (last day of season).

    When looking at the roster, 2 things stand out: youth and money.

    #1) Youth - players signed beyond 2012-13 (all ages as of December 31, 2012):

    Gray 28
    Bargnani 27
    Kleiza 27
    Lowry 26
    Amir 25
    Fields 24
    ED 23
    DD* 23
    Acy 22
    TR 21
    JV 20

    *qualifying offer


    #2) Money

    Gray* $3m
    Bargnani $10.75m
    Kleiza** $4.6m
    Lowry $6.2m
    Amir $6.55m
    Fields $6.3m
    ED $3.158m
    Acy* $900k
    TR $2.232
    JV $2.938

    TOTAL: $46.628 in committed salaries for 2013-14

    DD: qualifying offer - $4.531m; cap hold - $10.03M

    Raptors also hold amnesty that could be used on Bargnani, Kleiza, or Amir to free up nearly $5-$11m.

    *estimating contract
    ** assuming option picked up.


    Assuming the Raptors do not make any significant additions in salary this summer or before trade deadline, Raps are likely to find themselves in a very similar situation next year:
    - young and improving team
    - cap flexibilty


    People will likely groan (and rightfully so) because all this flexibility has gone for nothing thus far. 2 rays of hope:
    1) new punitive tax starts in 2013-14 and might be last chance for a treadmill team (Grizz, Philly, whoever) or team going nowhere to unload contracts before more punitive tax kicks in,
    2) luxury tax teams can no longer execute sign and trades after this summer (limited to $3m mini-MLE or minimum contracts).


    Some things that do concern me:
    1) Still no legit franchise talent (Bargnani, JV, or Ross please prove me wrong - or BC cash in some chips and get one!)
    2) playoffs far from a certainty in 2012-13 but a bottom 10 team seems unlikely as well - worst case scenario, just miss the playoffs and lose a 12-14 pick.


    My ultimate wet dream*:
    1) trade for AI sooner than later,
    2) when AI's contract comes off the books, sign Paul George as free agent.

    *ultimate wet dream - let me dream in peace.


    Putting it all together, things are not perfect but things are not near bad, in my opinion, either.
    The flexibility, has it not been used on Lucas III, Fields, and Gray? What is the remaining cap space of these moves? Originally the team was at about 12$ million.

    Comment


    • #3
      RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
      The flexibility, has it not been used on Lucas III, Fields, and Gray? What is the remaining cap space of these moves? Originally the team was at about 12$ million.
      BEYOND 2012-13.

      I'm talking next summer (2013).

      People talking about the summer and future are failures. All I'm saying is hardly.

      Comment


      • #4
        Matt52 wrote: View Post
        BEYOND 2012-13.

        I'm talking next summer (2013).

        People talking about the summer and future are failures. All I'm saying is hardly.
        Ah I see... But, how much cap space are we left with?

        Comment


        • #5
          RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
          Ah I see... But, how much cap space are we left with?
          Updated the post.

          TO answer your question: unknown.

          BRI split, amnesty, what happens with DD all factors.

          What we do know is:
          1) current salary cap is $58M and not expected (I don't think) to go down,
          2) Raps have $46.7m tied up in 10 players for 2013-2014 season.

          Comment


          • #6
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Updated the post.

            TO answer your question: unknown.

            BRI split, amnesty, what happens with DD all factors.

            What we do know is:
            1) current salary cap is $58M and not expected (I don't think) to go down,
            2) Raps have $46.7m tied up in 10 players for 2013-2014 season.
            Currently the roster paid is not including the possible signing of Anderson and JL3 correct? I've been reading JL3's contract valued to be 2-3$ million, what about Anderson's? Because of his age I'm seeing a vet minimum, or a minimum contract?

            Derozan's qualifying offer NEXT season 4.5$ million, being a rookie scale contract, isn't the last two years on qualifying? So, this would be the final year to use the qualifier?

            Comment


            • #7
              RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
              Currently the roster paid is not including the possible signing of Anderson and JL3 correct? I've been reading JL3's contract valued to be 2-3$ million, what about Anderson's? Because of his age I'm seeing a vet minimum, or a minimum contract?

              Derozan's qualifying offer NEXT season 4.5$ million, being a rookie scale contract, isn't the last two years on qualifying? So, this would be the final year to use the qualifier?
              JL3 contract details are unknown. Anything larger than $2M and longer than 2 years would be a shock and disappointment, however, I do think he is easily traded.

              Andersen will be a minimum contract with team options for anything beyond 2012-13.

              DD's qualifying offer is for 2013-14. DD's options for next summer are:
              1) resign with Toronto long term before October 31,
              2a) become restricted free agent whereby Raps will have right of first refusal on any contract retained by Toronto in matching contract (like HIbbert or Batum) or lost via restricted free agency (like Fields),
              3) sign offer sheet and play out 2013-14 at $4.5m and then become unrestricted free agent in 2014-15,
              4) Raptors renounce his rights to free cap space for another free agent target (like Houston did with Lee) whereby they will lose Bird Rights and have to sign him with cap space left or an exception,



              .... remember the point of the thread is the youth and flexibility beyond 2012-13 (i.e. this upcoming season). The only current player in danger of leaving Toronto without front office consent is DeMar next summer in restricted free agency.

              Comment


              • #8
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                JL3 contract details are unknown. Anything larger than $2M and longer than 2 years would be a shock and disappointment, however, I do think he is easily traded.

                Andersen will be a minimum contract with team options for anything beyond 2012-13.

                DD's qualifying offer is for 2013-14. DD's options for next summer are:
                1) resign with Toronto long term before October 31,
                2a) become restricted free agent whereby Raps will have right of first refusal on any contract retained by Toronto in matching contract (like HIbbert or Batum) or lost via restricted free agency (like Fields),
                3) sign offer sheet and play out 2013-14 at $4.5m and then become unrestricted free agent in 2014-15,
                4) Raptors renounce his rights to free cap space for another free agent target (like Houston did with Lee) whereby they will lose Bird Rights and have to sign him with cap space left or an exception,



                .... remember the point of the thread is the youth and flexibility beyond 2012-13 (i.e. this upcoming season). The only current player in danger of leaving Toronto without front office consent is DeMar next summer in restricted free agency.
                Thanks for the insight there Matt, good stuff and good original post. I was just really curious on the financial standpoint of this team.
                And I'm happy about that, because if Demar goes, we could potentially use him in a S&T deal to acquire a better wing, but really all depends on how his individual season pans out.

                Comment


                • #9
                  RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                  Thanks for the insight there Matt, good stuff and good original post. I was just really curious on the financial standpoint of this team.
                  And I'm happy about that, because if Demar goes, we could potentially use him in a S&T deal to acquire a better wing, but really all depends on how his individual season pans out.
                  Now you are thinking.

                  Use financial flexibility with a decent player to land a really good player.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    Now you are thinking.

                    Use financial flexibility with a decent player to land a really good player.
                    Hahaha, I could get a hang on this stuff.

                    Being the new CBA, and your past posts about the need for financial flexibility, and like you said at the top, treadmill teams are a handful in the league, nothing is impossible. Iguodala looks nice to me :P

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      *I have been intending to make this post but no access to keyboard for last week so here goes as I have one at my finger tips now*

                      I've made no secret I like what the Raptors have done thus far this off season. In my opinion, the Raps are younger, deeper, and (most importantly) better than they were on April 26, 2012 (last day of season).

                      When looking at the roster, 2 things stand out: youth and money.

                      #1) Youth - players signed beyond 2012-13 (all ages as of December 31, 2012):

                      Gray 28
                      Bargnani 27
                      Kleiza 27
                      Lowry 26
                      Amir 25
                      Fields 24
                      ED 23
                      DD* 23
                      Acy 22
                      TR 21
                      JV 20

                      *qualifying offer


                      #2) Money

                      Gray* $3m
                      Bargnani $10.75m
                      Kleiza** $4.6m
                      Lowry $6.2m
                      Amir $6.55m
                      Fields $6.3m
                      ED $3.158m
                      Acy* $900k
                      TR $2.232
                      JV $2.938

                      TOTAL: $46.628 in committed salaries for 2013-14 for 10 players.

                      DD: qualifying offer - $4.531m; cap hold - $10.03M

                      Raptors also hold amnesty that could be used on Bargnani, Kleiza, or Amir to free up nearly $5-$11m.

                      Cap Space: depends on what happens with DD, amnesty, and BRI split. Current salary cap is $58M. Lots of young players under contract and only $46.628M in committed salary - key (and dreaded) word is flexibility.

                      *estimating contract
                      ** assuming option picked up.


                      Assuming the Raptors do not make any significant additions in salary this summer or before trade deadline, Raps are likely to find themselves in a very similar situation next year:
                      - young and improving team
                      - cap flexibilty


                      People will likely groan (and rightfully so) because all this flexibility has gone for nothing thus far. 2 rays of hope:
                      1) new punitive tax starts in 2013-14 and might be last chance for a treadmill team (Grizz, Philly, whoever) or team going nowhere to unload contracts before more punitive tax kicks in,
                      2) luxury tax teams can no longer execute sign and trades after this summer (limited to $3m mini-MLE or minimum contracts).


                      Some things that do concern me:
                      1) Still no legit franchise talent (Bargnani, JV, or Ross please prove me wrong - or BC cash in some chips and get one!)
                      2) playoffs far from a certainty in 2012-13 but a bottom 10 team seems unlikely as well - worst case scenario, just miss the playoffs and lose a 12-14 pick.


                      My ultimate wet dream*:
                      1) trade for AI sooner than later,
                      2) when AI's contract comes off the books, sign Paul George as free agent.

                      *ultimate wet dream - let me dream in peace.


                      Putting it all together, things are not perfect but things are not near bad, in my opinion, either.
                      Did notice that too, but thanks for laying it all out on this post. I am also concerned with the absence of a legit franchise talent and hoping sooooo much that we are proven wrong.

                      Reading your insight about the punitive tax makes me realize that you are right. I also hope that someone does unload a franchise player to us.

                      Finally, I share your wet dream...even though that sounds bad

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                        Hahaha, I could get a hang on this stuff.

                        Being the new CBA, and your past posts about the need for financial flexibility, and like you said at the top, treadmill teams are a handful in the league, nothing is impossible. Iguodala looks nice to me :P
                        For 2 years? Absolutely.

                        Much like Gerald Wallace/Jermaine O'Neal he is the type of player I worry about past 30.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I like A.I. also, but the 76ers have made moves to pretty much ensure that they don't go into the tax any time soon. I don't think they'll look to move him. I could be wrong though. One can always wish...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            People keep raving about our improvements this year as if we have a team that can accomplish anything worthwhile yet. Sure, we can get to 40+ wins but so what? Have we sucked for so long that we're satisfied with just that? I'm not saying don't be happy, but let's keep it in perspective. Our new roster is amazing in comparison to last years squad, but in comparison to other teams in the league we're average to slightly above it. Sure we still have 'flexability' but BC has never been able to spin that into anything of value. If I'm MLSE I'm still letting BC walk at the end of the season for simply not making us a good enough team. He's in the business of saving bucks and building a perennially middle-of-the-pack team. That's why he spends a year selling the entire city on the ideas of 'retooling' and 'flexability' but is so quick to jeopardize all of that progress to chase after a 38 year old Steve Nash. For what? Ticket and jersey sales and a little player developement. Let's be real if we're going to ever be a contender we need a new GM. By all means be happy about this roster, but rest assured this is close to about as good as we'll get. 5-6 years and we go to the playoffs twice? We're so used to being crap we get our hopes up when he gives Landry Fields a poison pill to be our starting SF, and then he's considering letting Jose walk for just cash and some picks. Haha Im not impatient, if we're all still Raptors fans then we definitely know patience, but we've got be realistic. With the money and assets we had this season I'm sure other GMs couldve netted more talent. 40-50 wins for the next 3-4 years is an upsetting thought. Later days....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              jimmyhunter wrote: View Post
                              People keep raving about our improvements this year as if we have a team that can accomplish anything worthwhile yet. Sure, we can get to 40+ wins but so what? Have we sucked for so long that we're satisfied with just that? I'm not saying don't be happy, but let's keep it in perspective. Our new roster is amazing in comparison to last years squad, but in comparison to other teams in the league we're average to slightly above it. Sure we still have 'flexability' but BC has never been able to spin that into anything of value. If I'm MLSE I'm still letting BC walk at the end of the season for simply not making us a good enough team. He's in the business of saving bucks and building a perennially middle-of-the-pack team. That's why he spends a year selling the entire city on the ideas of 'retooling' and 'flexability' but is so quick to jeopardize all of that progress to chase after a 38 year old Steve Nash. For what? Ticket and jersey sales and a little player developement. Let's be real if we're going to ever be a contender we need a new GM. By all means be happy about this roster, but rest assured this is close to about as good as we'll get. 5-6 years and we go to the playoffs twice? We're so used to being crap we get our hopes up when he gives Landry Fields a poison pill to be our starting SF, and then he's considering letting Jose walk for just cash and some picks. Haha Im not impatient, if we're all still Raptors fans then we definitely know patience, but we've got be realistic. With the money and assets we had this season I'm sure other GMs couldve netted more talent. 40-50 wins for the next 3-4 years is an upsetting thought. Later days....
                              making money is a big thing to these guys. i also think nash would have put us in a better position to win next year then we are in now.

                              i am excited now because we are moving forward. not because i think we have a team that can knock down doors and win a conference title or even a division title. but we are looking at the playoffs and that growth should be exciting for us. i am not looking for instant gratification i am gratified in our continued growth and excited to see what steps we take this year. in no way am i satisfied if this was the end product but our boys just passed primary school and they are headed into middle school and i am happy/proud and excited for them.

                              Comment

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