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Raptor PG Controversy: Part 3

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  • #16
    I think all of this controversy is just about Jose's contract. Being demoted to the bench is never a good thing, but it's extremely amplified when a player is in a contract year.

    I really wish that he could remain an important part of the team, but money talks, and while Jose is a real class act, it's all about the bottom line.

    He'll play off the bench and do his best, but in his heart, he won't be happy.

    ...if somehow Toronto trades him for the elusive legit wing, and then manages to resign him to the MLE, Toronto would certainly be a lock for a playoff seed, and perhaps, a visit to the 2nd round???

    Jose is my favourite Raptor (by far) and I hope that the situation can be resolved for both sides.

    BTW, no one is talking about how Lowry must feel now that Casey is saying that the starting PG spot is still up for grabs.
    Walking like I'm already there.

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    • #17
      10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
      I think all of this controversy is just about Jose's contract. Being demoted to the bench is never a good thing, but it's extremely amplified when a player is in a contract year.

      I really wish that he could remain an important part of the team, but money talks, and while Jose is a real class act, it's all about the bottom line.

      He'll play off the bench and do his best, but in his heart, he won't be happy.

      ...if somehow Toronto trades him for the elusive legit wing, and then manages to resign him to the MLE, Toronto would certainly be a lock for a playoff seed, and perhaps, a visit to the 2nd round???

      Jose is my favourite Raptor (by far) and I hope that the situation can be resolved for both sides.

      BTW, no one is talking about how Lowry must feel now that Casey is saying that the starting PG spot is still up for grabs.
      I think that is back peddling on the Raptors part. When Lowry was first signed the initial reaction was "PG of the future" and "starter"..... when there was no beneficial trade for Calderon the tune changed.

      I think Chisholm nailed it with:
      Despite his skills, circumstances have all but dictated that Calderon is a reserve guard given the way today's NBA landscape is shaped. While that landscape is ever-shifting, for now he'd be wise to accept a reserve role with the Raptors, post his highly efficient numbers off of the bench, and hope to play his way into a contract extension with the only NBA club he's ever known.
      Realistically where ever he goes next year he is going to be a reserve.

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      • #18
        Agents don't make trade requests without instruction from their client.
        Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Tough to know if that was his reaction or his agent's on the trade request. I'm sure regardless of trade request he was unhappy with a starter being brought in at his position. Also, it must be frustrating knowing you've been on the trade block for 3 years and technically traded once.

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        • #19
          j bean wrote: View Post
          Agents don't make trade requests without instruction from their client.
          Agents advise their clients on how they think they should proceed. If you have an agent, and he isn't giving you advice, or you aren't taking his advice, you are throwing away 15% of your salary for nothing. I have read, in other sources, that the stuff about Jose wanting a trade after the Lowry acquisition was the agent talking. Can't remember the source, but based on JC's history, it sounded more likely than Jose complaining.

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          • #20

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            • #21
              I think I would be more concerned if Jose wasn't upset that someone had been hired to take his job. The guy plays his ass off at all times and has been a great team player since day one. I feel that he has put the team ahead of personal success over and over and in return he has been traded once, been the repeated talk of trade speculation, had 3 over PG's hired to take over. Jose is a competitive guy and wants to play and help the team. I think he will continue to show the same character that he always has going forward regardless of his role.

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              • #22
                j bean wrote: View Post
                Agents don't make trade requests without instruction from their client.
                I wouldn't be so sure of that.

                Clients often follow the lead of their agents because they deal with numerous teams and often act on behave of numerous other players. Negotiations and conflict resolutions are what they are paid to do.

                Same idea as people buying a house, they often follow the advice of the agent because they do it for a living and have much more experience in the nuances of buying a house.

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                • #23
                  It was a trade and being upset and demanding are 2 different things. If one was to make an assumption without fact then, yes, they could be interpreted as the same thing.

                  I've read in numerous tweets and HoopsHype.com bits that the agent was the one publicly "through sources" pushing the trade demand/talk.

                  Colangelo did say initially they would do what they could to find a mutually agreeable solution that benefited both parties.

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                  • #24
                    CT2010 wrote: View Post
                    I think I would be more concerned if Jose wasn't upset that someone had been hired to take his job. The guy plays his ass off at all times and has been a great team player since day one. I feel that he has put the team ahead of personal success over and over and in return he has been traded once, been the repeated talk of trade speculation, had 3 over PG's hired to take over. Jose is a competitive guy and wants to play and help the team. I think he will continue to show the same character that he always has going forward regardless of his role.
                    Hopefully.

                    The reality is barring injury and/or trade to another team this season, Jose is a backup. Too many more talented or young point guards on rebuilding teams out there and not enough teams. For teams that are a possibility of him starting, then you have to factor in the CBA and the means that team would have of actually acquiring him - other than after a buyout. Look through the league:

                    Atlanta: Teague/Harris
                    Boston: Rondo
                    Brooklyn: Williams
                    Charlotte: Walker/Sessions
                    Cleveland: Irving
                    Chicago: Rose (injured to start year)
                    Detroit: Knight
                    Indiana: Hill/Augustin
                    Miami: could definitely start but CBA factors in
                    Milwaukee: Jennings
                    New York: Felton/Kidd
                    Orlando: Nelson
                    Philadelphia: Holiday
                    Washington: Wall
                    Dallas: Collison
                    Denver: Lawson/Miller
                    Golden State: Curry
                    Houston: Lin
                    Clippers: Paul
                    Lakers: Nash
                    Memphis: Conley
                    Minnesota: Rubio/Ridnour
                    New Orleans: could definitely start
                    OKC: Westbrook
                    Phoenix: Dragic
                    Portland: Lillard
                    Sacramento: Brooks/Thomas
                    San Antonio: Parker
                    Utah: Williams

                    Once CBA rules and team assets are factored in, it seems pretty clear Jose's best option is to stick it out in Toronto and work his tail off to secure his next NBA contract using the MLE.

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                    • #25
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      I wouldn't be so sure of that.

                      Clients often follow the lead of their agents because they deal with numerous teams and often act on behave of numerous other players. Negotiations and conflict resolutions are what they are paid to do.

                      Same idea as people buying a house, they often follow the advice of the agent because they do it for a living and have much more experience in the nuances of buying a house.
                      Saying agents make trade requests without the instruction of the player is like saying your agent put your house up for sale on his own.

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                      • #26
                        j bean wrote: View Post
                        Saying agents make trade requests without the instruction of the player is like saying your agent put your house up for sale on his own.
                        I disagree.

                        Saying agents make trade requests without the instruction of the player is like saying you commissioned an agent to sell your house, paid him, and he never bothered to list the house.

                        I'm not saying it is not a possibility Jose demanded the trade but I think the possibility is greater the agent is pushing an agenda he thinks is in Jose's best interests..... cause that is what he is paid to do.

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                        • #27
                          Calderone's role as the starter for this team has come and gone.
                          He has beaten out every other PG to date. Why are we so sure a player who just lost his starting role (Lowry) on a non-playoff team will be able to maintain a starting role here?

                          To let him think he has a chance to compete for that isn't fair to him.
                          To let him think he has a chance to compete isn't fair. But telling him he has NO CHANCE is fair? Exactly how well has ensuring starting positions on this team worked out so far?

                          JL3rd can backup KL. Just for chemistry Jose should be moved as soon as possible
                          I also think its weird that Jose should be moved for 'chemistry' considering Colangelo just mentioned the chemistry he has with his teammates.

                          I expect Lowry to be the starting PG come the beginning of the season. You don't give up a lottery pick for a guy who was disgruntled about being a back up (another irony in this saga) and then proceed to make him a back up.
                          But Jose is the epitome of what this 'culture' change is all about.... yet some fans are so quick to throw him under the bus.

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                          • #28
                            I hate to be a nitpicker but I never seen Colangelo say those words. The phrase I did hear was "I won't tell you he was happy" about Lowry being brought in.

                            Now you really just read between the lines, but it only takes someone to read your post and read between your lines and think "Jose hates the trade", then someone reads that and that leads to "JOSE HATES CANADA"...now all that may be in fact true, but Jose has been nothing but professional and I would expect nothing less this season. I imagine all he wants is to be a starter but once he's in Raptors training camp it will be the usual "All I want to do is help the team win" quotes from him.
                            Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                            • #29
                              Lowry and Calderon is the best PG Combination in Raptors History!

                              I think Calderon is coming around to that fact and its one of the strongest in the league as well. Calderon is interested in 3 things (Money which he is making, Starting which has been taken, and Playoffs which he has a good chance of making.) I think money i.e locking down a contract after this season and Playoffs are whats most important if he really had to choose. Jose would not want to start on an inferior team to the raptors when he sees the makings of a playoff team here. Keep in mind players see the league through different eyes then us fans and Im sure the Raptors team with the roster all but solidified are saying PLAYOFFS! Toronto is also his most likely destination for a re-sign. If we make 6-8th bounce out of the first rd or by some miracle advance or at least play well, its likely we keep our duo together for next year and offer Jose 3 yrs 18 mil range maybe and let him retire a Raptor, fuck we might retire his Jersey....anyway there is no controversy here.

                              We should be looking at our PF controversy (Bargnani, Johnson, Davis, Acy)

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                              • #30
                                Sheptor wrote: View Post
                                Lowry and Calderon is the best PG Combination in Raptors History!
                                i agree it has a chance to be, but i will wait and see before saying they are better than ford/jose. i thought ford/jose was a fantastic duo. lowry/jose has the chance to be even better with a little less offense and a lot more defensive potential. poor tj ford

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