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Should Raptors be on the phone with Denver?

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  • #46
    Kuh wrote: View Post
    Um ... the poster suggests that Denver can amnesty Amir, when only Toronto can do that ... next summer. Not very rational.
    Ok .. yes, he slipped in an incorrect amnesty in their list of options (one word out of 500 or so) .. otherwise it was all very realistic and made sense vs. the norm which overvalues our players in trades tremendously ..

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    • #47
      Mediumcore wrote: View Post
      Landry shot 26% form 3 point territory last season. Though DeMar isn't a great outside shooter either I wouldn't say Landry has an advantage there. I'll say that Fields has higher basketball IQ (right now), but he doesn't have any of the physical abilities which allows DD to get his shot over almost any SG. DD's mid range shot is improving nicely and he has WAY more upside that Fields. I think the gap between Fields' and DD's defense will narrow in time as DD's basketball IQ develops. Coach Casey will also have a full training camp to get him going.

      On another note I think DD has a bit more in common with Lowry and T. Ross which should motivate him to get better and Ross should push him during practice. The absence of Weems, his former best buddy, may have had an advers affect on him last season. No facts to back that up however, but I'm expecting DD to take a good sized step forward this season.
      And I'm expecting Fields to return to his rookie form when it comes to shooting percentages. But I really hope you're right about Demar, this is a huge year for him

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      • #48
        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
        The only deal I'd really be interested in doing with Denver, since I highly doubt either Iguodala or Gallinari are available, would be to offer Amir ($6.05M, 3 yrs left) for Chandler ($5.93M, 4 yrs left). Toronto could even add a 2nd round pick (theirs or Sacramento's) to sweeten the deal, if need be.

        Denver's only real weak position is PF. Faried had a decent half season in a shortened season, but is completely unproven and could easily have a 'sophmore slump'. Randolph is more of a PF/SF tweener. I also can't see either of their backup C's (Mozgov & Koufos) seeing much time at PF, as I don't think they're mobile enough to cover the quicker, more athletic PFs in the league.

        Chandler is coming off hip surgery and will be pushed by Brewer (contract year) & Q.Miller (rookie) for playing time at backup SF, and by Fournier (European rookie) & Hamilton (2nd year player) at backup SG. A three-headed wing rotation of Gallinari/Iguodala/Chandler would normally be quite exciting but, given Chandler's salary & injury, as well as the young depth they have at both wing positions, I could see Denver potentially using him as an asset to upgrade their PF rotation.

        ---

        Aside from adding veteran wing depth and clearing up the PF logjam, the other thing I like about a trade like this is that it makes DeRozan even more expendable. I like DeRozan and think he could still improve, but he hasn't developed anywhere close to what I had expected, plus he'll be looking for a big payday after this season. Calderon (expiring contract) & DeRozan & 1 or 2 2nd round pick(s) would be a pretty enticing package at the trade deadline... *cough* Gay *cough* Even if they just kept DeRozan, they'd have a very solid lineup.

        Starters: Valanciunas, Bargnani, Chandler, DeRozan, Lowry
        2nd Unit: Davis, Kleiza, Fields, Ross, Calderon (Gray at C for certain matchups)
        Bench: Lucas III, Acy, Anderson
        Here is an example. Denver is more doing us a favour by taking Amir than getting an asset. This deal will never happen.

        Of course, would I love it to? Sure. But completely unrealistic. While Chandler doesnt have tremendous value, he certainly has some value .. and we are gonna have to give something up (ie DD) to get him.

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        • #49
          mountio wrote: View Post
          Here is an example. Denver is more doing us a favour by taking Amir than getting an asset. This deal will never happen.

          Of course, would I love it to? Sure. But completely unrealistic. While Chandler doesnt have tremendous value, he certainly has some value .. and we are gonna have to give something up (ie DD) to get him.
          I never said it would happen, I just mentioned that it was the only somewhat realistic deal I would even pursue. I certainly wouldn't giveup DeRozan to get Chandler. I know you warn about people overvaluing Raptor players, but I think in this case you might be slightly overvaluing Chandler, especially in light of his contract and injury. I even added that Toronto would likely have to add a sweetener to the deal, such as a 2nd round pick or two... but DeRozan is way too much... I would argue that DeRozan probably has the most trade value of those three players, so he's much more than sweetener.

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          • #50
            Could someone be so kind as to inform me what Denver got out of this deal? They traded Aflollo whom I considered quite similar to Iggy, but with Iggy being a better slasher and penetrater, but also older, bigger contract. Lateral move?

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            • #51
              Denver would also owe Orlando by way of one of the teams involved in the trade a first round pick if I'm not mistaken.

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              • #52
                Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                Denver would also owe Orlando by way of one of the teams involved in the trade a first round pick if I'm not mistaken.
                I think Iguodala is a pretty significant upgrade over Afflalo. Prior to re-signing, Afflalo was a great value contract, but at $7.75M each of the next 3 years (with a $7.9M player option for 2015-16), I think he is a little overpaid. With the emergence of Faried and acquisition of Randolph, Harrington had become expendable. At $6.7M, $7.1M and $7.6M over the next three seasons, I think he was a little overpaid as well, especially if he had lost his starting job. They were able to swap those two players for Iguodala, which finally gives them a legitimate star player who can become the face of the franchise. Denver was a good young team but didn't really have any star go-to type players, which Iggy immediately gives them, in addition to providing veteran leadership. I think he'll take the focus off the younger players, make opposition defences key on him and be a great mentor as well, to the likes of McGee, Mozgov, Faried, Randolph, Gallinari, Chandler, Q.Miller, Fournier, Hamilton and Lawson. The only other veteran they currently have on the roster is A.Miller, but I don't get the impression that he is near the leader that Iggy is, both on and off the court.

                Denver also had to giveup a 2014 1st round pick, but it's likely to fall somewhere in the 20's range, so I don't think it will be a significant loss for them.

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                • #53
                  CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                  The only deal I'd really be interested in doing with Denver, since I highly doubt either Iguodala or Gallinari are available, would be to offer Amir ($6.05M, 3 yrs left) for Chandler ($5.93M, 4 yrs left). Toronto could even add a 2nd round pick (theirs or Sacramento's) to sweeten the deal, if need be.
                  Wilson Chandler is an average quality starter, when healthy. Amir Johnson is a good bench player.

                  I think it will take far more than a 2nd round pick to sweeten the deal before Denver even consider such a trade.

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                  • #54
                    Hugmenot wrote: View Post
                    Wilson Chandler is an average quality starter, when healthy. Amir Johnson is a good bench player.

                    I think it will take far more than a 2nd round pick to sweeten the deal before Denver even consider such a trade.
                    You're probably right. The thread was asking 'should the Raps be on the phone with Denver' and that's all I'd be interested in. If Denver wasn't interested or wanted much more, I'd move on. I never said it was a slam-dunk trade that would definitely happen...

                    Personally, I wouldn't be willing to give up much more than Amir and a 2nd round pick or two for Chandler, given his contract and injury, plus the fact that Toronto's fairly deep at the wing position now. Iggy and Gallinari likely aren't available and there's nobody else that really intrigues me for this Raptors team. Iggy and Gay were a few of the only upgrades on the wing that I'd be willing to trade DeRozan for, otherwise it probably makes more sense to just continue developing him and then re-sign him after this season.

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                    • #55
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      And what happens if DeRozan has a breakout year? I know the market will dictate he gets paid for sure then. The change in style of PG's to Lowry might help him step forward for all we know.
                      It might.

                      Luckily there will be about 50 games until the trade deadline to figure such things out.

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                      • #56
                        I would really like to see Ed Davis turn in to Jordan Hamilton and Quincy Miller..... I mean really like to see it.

                        http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9xozadv

                        My thinking is:

                        1) it adds to depth on Raptors wings.
                        2) it adds cheap talent with tremendous upside.
                        3) if the Raptors are trading for Rudy Gay (last big talent wing left in trade whispers) I think Hamilton and Miller have more value to Memphis than ED.
                        Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Aug 10th, 2012, 12:34 PM.

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                        • #57
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          I would really like to see Ed Davis turn in to Jordan Hamilton and Quincy Miller..... I mean really like to see it.

                          http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9xozadv

                          My thinking is:

                          1) it adds to depth on Raptors wings.
                          2) it adds cheap talent with tremendous upside.
                          3) if the Raptors are trading for Rudy Gay (last big talent wing left in trade whispers) I think Hamilton and Miller have more value to Memphis than ED.
                          Interesting thought... a 4th string SF & 3rd string SG for a 3rd string PF. I'm curious how high BC is on Miller, considering he passed on him twice.

                          You don't think Memphis would simply prefer Davis & DeRozan? I'm also assuming Calderon is included in either option, for salary-matching purposes.

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                          • #58
                            Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            I would really like to see Ed Davis turn in to Jordan Hamilton and Quincy Miller..... I mean really like to see it.

                            http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9xozadv

                            My thinking is:

                            1) it adds to depth on Raptors wings.
                            2) it adds cheap talent with tremendous upside.
                            3) if the Raptors are trading for Rudy Gay (last big talent wing left in trade whispers) I think Hamilton and Miller have more value to Memphis than ED.
                            you want to add ANOTHER rookie to Ross/Acy/Valanciunas ?
                            For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                            • #59
                              thead wrote: View Post
                              you want to add ANOTHER rookie to Ross/Acy/Valanciunas ?
                              When your depth chart looks like this...

                              PG: Lowry, Calderon, Lucas
                              SG: DD, Ross, Hamilton
                              SF: Fields, Kleiza, Andersen, Miller
                              PF: Bargnani, Amir, Acy
                              C: JV, Gray

                              .... with Kleiza capable of playing PF and Amir playing C in small ball, an unknown future with DeRozan at SG, and considering the last big wing left (Gay) in trade whispers is on a team with a stacked front court (Gasol, Randolph, Speights, Arthur) and likely to have little interest in Davis but do have a shortage of SF's...... *big breath for run-on sentence* then yes, I would certainly add another rookie who is unlikely to see the floor next season as he works on his body. Miller has incredible skills and a 7'2" wingspan. I would have no problem with him filling in the 15 roster spot.

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                              • #60
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                When your depth chart looks like this...

                                PG: Lowry, Calderon, Lucas
                                SG: DD, Ross, Hamilton
                                SF: Fields, Kleiza, Andersen, Miller
                                PF: Bargnani, Amir, Acy
                                C: JV, Gray

                                .... with Kleiza capable of playing PF and Amir playing C in small ball, an unknown future with DeRozan at SG, and considering the last big wing left (Gay) in trade whispers is on a team with a stacked front court (Gasol, Randolph, Speights, Arthur) and likely to have little interest in Davis but do have a shortage of SF's...... *big breath for run-on sentence* then yes, I would certainly add another rookie who is unlikely to see the floor next season as he works on his body. Miller has incredible skills and a 7'2" wingspan. I would have no problem with him filling in the 15 roster spot.
                                If the deal is more for the Memphis angle, I'd probably just wait and do it as a multi-team deal at the deadline. Without the Memphis flip, I think Davis makes more sense for Toronto, plus he probably has more straight-up trade value than Hamilton and/or Q.Miller with most other teams.

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