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  • tucas wrote: View Post
    I'm still sleeping on the nets. To me an aging Allstar shouldn't be able to bring a team from 12th to 3rd. Granted williams will likely be healthy but they gave up all their depth in the trade. Their second unit is lacking they have a good starting lineup but I don't think it's enough to compete with elite teams. I see them as no better than new york.
    +1 until the season is started and everything is running well, i don't believe anything about ny or nj. the hype maachine that comes from that place is gross.

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    • Apollo wrote: View Post
      Melo was a lot prettier asset than Chris Bosh and just like that Jazz brass, a lot was learned through the Raptors' and Cavs' hard lumps. The business of the sport has changed and it's unfortunate that the Raptors had to be an example of what not to do (ie: trusting in a man's word).

      I'm not so sure Yuri is surpassing Colangelo. He's done well but he has a small track record. One really good play doesn't mean much if he pulls some bone head plays in the years to come. I do like how he handled the Melo situation. I guess he learned what not do to by studying past GM Rob Babcock's tactics when dealing with disgruntled stars.
      I am completely anti-Heat and never was a big CB4 fan, but I can't stand it when people try to make it out like Bosh promised the Raptors that they would have the best shot at retaining him. Even internet polls 2 years before 2010 free agency had Toronto as the 4th or 5th likeliest option (behind Miami, NY, Chicago, etc...). I defy anybody to find a direct Bosh quote that even alludes to Toronto being the favourite. To be revisionist and imply he lied about something is really off-base, IMO.
      Last edited by golden; Sat Aug 11, 2012, 10:45 PM.

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      • golden wrote: View Post
        I am completely anti-Heat and never was a big CB4 fan, but I can't stand it when people try to make it out like Bosh promised the Raptors that they would have the best shot at retaining him. Even internet polls 2 years before 2010 free agency had Toronto as the 4th or 5th likeliest option (behind Miami, NY, Chicago, etc...). I defy anybody to find a direct Bosh quote that even alludes to Toronto being the favourite. To be revisionist and imply he lied about something is really off-base, IMO.

        it isn't "he promised the best shot" the beef is "he pormised a shot" while it is clear the three of them had their plans made months prior to the day. he smiled and said all the right things while waiting for the day to sign with his friends.

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        • golden wrote: View Post
          I am completely anti-Heat and never was a big CB4 fan, but I can't stand it when people try to make it out like Bosh promised the Raptors that they would have the best shot at retaining him. Even internet polls 2 years before 2010 free agency had Toronto as the 4th or 5th likeliest option (behind Miami, NY, Chica
          I can't stand it when people put words in my mouth. Bosh gave no indication that he wasn't going to give the Raptors a chance, he hinted the opposite. He had no intent of staying, it was blatantly obvious come the off-season and there were reports that the trio might have met at the all-star game even to talk about their off-season.

          If Bosh had been straight with the Raptors do you honestly think they would have sat on him and let his contract play out? Other teams are indicating that scenario is bad business and not a likely outcome in the future.

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          • Apollo wrote: View Post
            I can't stand it when people put words in my mouth. Bosh gave no indication that he wasn't going to give the Raptors a chance, he hinted the opposite. He had no intent of staying, it was blatantly obvious come the off-season and there were reports that the trio might have met at the all-star game even to talk about their off-season.

            If Bosh had been straight with the Raptors do you honestly think they would have sat on him and let his contract play out? Other teams are indicating that scenario is bad business and not a likely outcome in the future.
            Did Bosh string Toronto along? To my knowledge he never publically declared one way or another that he was staying or going. Rather that he was 'waying his options'.

            But, From Stephen A Smith Feb2/2009

            My sources tell me Chris Bosh wants out of Toronto. Preferably before 2010, when he's free to opt out of his contract. They've also informed me Bosh has quietly made the Raptors aware of this, that he wouldn't mind interest from Miami or Dallas, at all, and that he's hopeful his days as a Raptor will come to an end sooner than when the LeBron James' Sweepstakes hits the fan in 2010.

            Essentially, these things qualify as one of the worse-kept secrets in the NBA.

            Both Bosh and Raptors' President, Bryan Colangelo have emphatically denied Bosh has made the Raptors aware of anything. Feel free to believe them if you want to. And while you're at it, feel free to to conveniently forget that Damon Stoudamire, Marcus Camby, Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter all echoed similar sentiments before they skipped town, too.

            It doesn't change the reality.
            I think most of us have learned that what Colangelo says and whats true aren't necessarily one and the same

            I wasn't even the first to report it, but I mentioned his desire to leave Toronto, nevertheless.
            Perhaps he is reffering to Jalen Rose who reported in Nov. 2008 that Chris Bosh and Lebron James were teaming up. Ofcourse he thought NY.



            back to Stephen A Smith.

            Any doubts? Let's see where Bosh will be in 2010, if not sooner. I guarantee no one is willing to definitively say Bosh will be in Toronto. Not even Bosh, himself.
            2 days later

            I'll repeat what I reported: Bosh wants out of Toronto. He's not about to admit it because he's still in Toronto and doesn't want to bring unnecessary stress to his life. His agent, Henry Thomas, knows this to be true. So does Bryan Colangelo, despite his public denials.
            I've said what my sources have told me. I've echoed the Raptors' denials. I never once said they were looking to trade him; only that he wants out of Toronto
            http://stephenablog.typepad.com/step...02/boshed.html

            http://stephenablog.typepad.com/step...hed-twice.html


            So did Colangelo know and sit on his hands anyways? or take the risk of trying to convince Bosh to stay even though Bosh wanted out?

            Its easy to forget what was talked about 3-4 years ago and not everyone reads every statement made available to them.

            But there is a real possibility Colangelo knew but took the risk of trying to retain him (or change his mind) anyways.
            If the above is true (that Bosh told Colangelo he wanted out years before 2010) that turns the getting nothing in return for Bosh black mark into a cancerous wound.

            (P.S. I hope no one uses the 'hindsight excuse' on Bosh leaving in 2010 issue again. Clearly this gives evidence of 'foresight' to the belief he was leaving)

            Comment


            • Stephen A Smith lol awesome. He blows so much hot air that some of it is bound to eventually resemble what actually happens.

              http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...osh/index.html

              Though he never strictly says he's staying in Toronto there, he was obviously "the man" and that's what he said was important to him. I guess things can change a lot during one season as he's strictly "an addition" and "a helper" in Miami.
              Two beer away from being two beers away.

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              • Craiger wrote: View Post
                Did Bosh string Toronto along? To my knowledge he never publically declared one way or another that he was staying or going. Rather that he was 'waying his options'.

                But, From Stephen A Smith Feb2/2009



                I think most of us have learned that what Colangelo says and whats true aren't necessarily one and the same



                Perhaps he is reffering to Jalen Rose who reported in Nov. 2008 that Chris Bosh and Lebron James were teaming up. Ofcourse he thought NY.



                back to Stephen A Smith.



                2 days later





                http://stephenablog.typepad.com/step...02/boshed.html

                http://stephenablog.typepad.com/step...hed-twice.html


                So did Colangelo know and sit on his hands anyways? or take the risk of trying to convince Bosh to stay even though Bosh wanted out?

                Its easy to forget what was talked about 3-4 years ago and not everyone reads every statement made available to them.

                But there is a real possibility Colangelo knew but took the risk of trying to retain him (or change his mind) anyways.
                If the above is true (that Bosh told Colangelo he wanted out years before 2010) that turns the getting nothing in return for Bosh black mark into a cancerous wound.

                (P.S. I hope no one uses the 'hindsight excuse' on Bosh leaving in 2010 issue again. Clearly this gives evidence of 'foresight' to the belief he was leaving)
                Nice post.

                Unfortunately it offers nothing conclusive. It is all second hand, anonymous sources. Anyone making a comment with their name attached to it is saying it is not true.

                Mess has a nice article as well with direct quotes from Bosh. What he said in that article and what he did are not one and the same. There was also another article I recall where Bosh was quoted as saying a former star anonymous player told him to get as much money as you can and that he intended to take that advice. In going to Miami, he did not take the max possible.


                I am not naive enough to think what Stephen A. Smith says is not a real possibility of what happened. Unfortunately, there is nothing conclusive either.

                Using the 'hindsight excuse' what BC should have done, as Utah and Denver learned, is trade your player if he refuses a max contract.

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                • Mess wrote: View Post
                  Stephen A Smith lol awesome. He blows so much hot air that some of it is bound to eventually resemble what actually happens.

                  http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...osh/index.html

                  Though he never strictly says he's staying in Toronto there, he was obviously "the man" and that's what he said was important to him. I guess things can change a lot during one season as he's strictly "an addition" and "a helper" in Miami.

                  So let me get this straight. We should laugh off Stephen A Smith statements, that at the very least turned out to be partially true (Bosh was leaving) as 'hot air'.

                  Rather we should look at the evidence of Bosh's statements that turned out to be false (he wanted to be "the man")?

                  That seems to be a very ackward way of looking at this.


                  Absolutely believe what you want to believe and disbelieve what you like. But saying Smith blows hot air doesn't change what we know did happen (That he was leaving. Bosh would never make it public and Colangelo would never make it public). Rather the level of accuracy in most of his post sure gives alot more validity to the possibility that Bosh did let Colangelo know he wanted out.

                  it offers nothing conclusive
                  and never did I say (in any way or fashion) that it was conclusive. But we shouldn't ignore the possibility either.

                  Too often we hear that (paraphrasing) 'Bosh strung Colangelo along' as if that is the truth. Reality is we don't know thats true either. People took Bosh public statements and twisted them (for lack of a better word) to mean there was a possibility he was going to stay. Meanwhile we had reports that claim, in private, the exact opposite was true.

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                  • Craiger wrote: View Post


                    and never did I say (in any way or fashion) that it was conclusive. But we shouldn't ignore the possibility either.

                    Too often we hear that (paraphrasing) 'Bosh strung Colangelo along' as if that is the truth. Reality is we don't know thats true either. People took Bosh public statements and twisted them (for lack of a better word) to mean there was a possibility he was going to stay. Meanwhile we had reports that claim, in private, the exact opposite was true.
                    I'm sorry but my interpretation of the post led me to believe you were stating the Stephen A. Smith article as conclusive - apologies.

                    It is pretty hard to twist direct statements unless you are talking about interpretation. However when a guys says, "I want to be the man." and, "I want to earn the max amount possible." you don't think he is going to head off to Miami and be the half man.

                    The other thing to keep in mind is these 'reports' came at a time when the Raps were in a 33-49 season and the JO experiment failed. Even Kobe wanted out after some losing AFTER winning 3 championships. If Bosh had been as willing to play C in Toronto as he has been in Miami........

                    The bold is the heart of the matter. You can only take a guy at face value. If he is telling you in public and to your face that there is a possibility he wants to stay but then you have whispers saying he definitely wants to leave with unnamed sources..... what are you going to do? Personally, I think you take the guy at his word and ignore the whispers. Again this all comes back to the hard lesson teams learned: max contract offered refused, trade that mo'fo'.


                    As to what actually happened, we both agree we don't know.

                    Comment


                    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      I'm sorry but my interpretation of the post led me to believe you were stating the Stephen A. Smith article as conclusive - apologies.

                      It is pretty hard to twist direct statements unless you are talking about interpretation. However when a guys says, "I want to be the man." and, "I want to earn the max amount possible." you don't think he is going to head off to Miami and be the half man.

                      The other thing to keep in mind is these 'reports' came at a time when the Raps were in a 33-49 season and the JO experiment failed. Even Kobe wanted out after some losing AFTER winning 3 championships. If Bosh had been as willing to play C in Toronto as he has been in Miami........

                      The bold is the heart of the matter. You can only take a guy at face value. If he is telling you in public and to your face that there is a possibility he wants to stay but then you have whispers saying he definitely wants to leave with unnamed sources..... what are you going to do? Personally, I think you take the guy at his word and ignore the whispers. Again this all comes back to the hard lesson teams learned: max contract offered refused, trade that mo'fo'.


                      As to what actually happened, we both agree we don't know.

                      This is what I mean by twisting - Bosh did make very specific statements (which turned out to be untrue), but they only vaguely or partially applied to Toronto. (wanted to be 'the man', get a max contract. These things could have happened on most team.s in the NBA) Fans on the other hand seemed to feel they very specifically applied to Toronto. In the end they didn't. Maybe saying fans heard what they wanted to hear would have been a better phrase.


                      Bosh may have strung fans along. Bosh may have strung the local media along, reinforcing fans beliefs. And people can hate or love Bosh because of it. But neither means he strung the organization along.

                      Comment


                      • Honestly, I just laugh off Stephen A Smith. I have a hard time taking him as seriously as he takes himself (as a sports media personality - I can't imagine he's like that around the dinner table).

                        Who ends a blog with...

                        I'll leave it at that and be nice. For now.

                        So long as no one pushes me.
                        ...and doesn't think it's ridiculous.

                        Anyway, everyone has been talking about that one week of free agency for 4 years with no end in sight. Maybe we'll never know, or maybe Bosh will come out and admit to something beyond playing with people's emotions.

                        https://twitter.com/chrisbosh/status/17956628567
                        Last edited by Mess; Sun Aug 12, 2012, 04:20 PM.
                        Two beer away from being two beers away.

                        Comment


                        • tucas wrote: View Post
                          I'm still sleeping on the nets. To me an aging Allstar shouldn't be able to bring a team from 12th to 3rd. Granted williams will likely be healthy but they gave up all their depth in the trade. Their second unit is lacking they have a good starting lineup but I don't think it's enough to compete with elite teams. I see them as no better than new york.
                          +1
                          Also: With long term security (Lopez...) what is the incentive?

                          Comment


                          • Craiger wrote: View Post
                            ...wanted to...get a max contract. These things could have happened on most team.s in the NBA) Fans on the other hand seemed to feel they very specifically applied to Toronto.
                            The only way he could get a "max" contract (in the commonly accepted sense of 'the maximum amount of money I could possibly earn playing basketball') would be if he had resigned with the Raptors. No other team could match the salary the Raptors could have offered. As it was he gave up several millions of dollars to be the #3 guy on a team. You could argue that he got the maximum possible that Miami would give him, but that is stretching a point.

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                            • Craiger wrote: View Post
                              This is what I mean by twisting - Bosh did make very specific statements (which turned out to be untrue), but they only vaguely or partially applied to Toronto. (wanted to be 'the man', get a max contract. These things could have happened on most team.s in the NBA) Fans on the other hand seemed to feel they very specifically applied to Toronto. In the end they didn't. Maybe saying fans heard what they wanted to hear would have been a better phrase.


                              Bosh may have strung fans along. Bosh may have strung the local media along, reinforcing fans beliefs. And people can hate or love Bosh because of it. But neither means he strung the organization along.
                              When one is not getting a straight answer to a specific question, then yes, one tends to hear what they want from vague answers. Again, what LBJ and Bosh did was unprecedented and changed the way teams do business with their max players.

                              The bold is exactly the point of this - or at least what I thought it was. Bosh might have strung along the organization or he might not of. The only people who are going to know are his agent, Bosh, and Raps brass. Considering Bosh and his agent have never claimed contrary and the angry response from BC, well we can certainly make assumptions there as well. But yet again we come back to the point of assumptions and none of us know what really happened.

                              Comment


                              • SAShole

                                Bingo. Good post Matt. Steven A. Smith is a (Insert your favorite four letter word). I like to refer to him as SAShole. He's full of himself, hot air and not much else. I would not take anything he says at face value and he has a history of unfairly attacking the Raptors. Prime example: When the Raptors brought in Rasho he labeled Rasho as one othe worst players in the league and basically called Colangelo an idiot. That's just one example and he was entirely wrong, although if you didn't follow hoops you might be fooled by the power of his conviction in which he mercilessly delivers his ignorant tirades. SAShole didn't have a flippin' clue what was going on in my opinion. He was saying Bosh wasn't coming back prior to his last time being up for contract extension...

                                Everything that went on implied that Bosh led the Raptors to believe he wanted his own team and he wanted proof that the Raptors were getting better. They were getting better and it was not until after the all-star game that they really struggled and it correlated with Bosh's play. He posted stats but you could clearly tell he wasn't into it, that he really didn't care. And so later when Colangelo pointed the finger and suggested Bosh wasn't trying in the second half, Bosh blew it off and the American media pretty much jumped on Colangelo while using mere stats to try and discredit his statements. Of course they only used stats, it's all they had because none of them actually watch Raptors games.

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