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Should Raptors be on the phone with Denver?
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Puffer wrote: View PostThe only way he could get a "max" contract (in the commonly accepted sense of 'the maximum amount of money I could possibly earn playing basketball') would be if he had resigned with the Raptors. No other team could match the salary the Raptors could have offered. As it was he gave up several millions of dollars to be the #3 guy on a team. You could argue that he got the maximum possible that Miami would give him, but that is stretching a point.
He did anyways even while taking a pay cut. If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe all three could have signed (even while taking the hair cut they did) without the Toronto and Cleveland sign and trades, and that was the only reason Toronto (and Cleveland) even ended up getting anything in return.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5360134
here is an article from when bosh decided on miami. if we take it at face value bosh decided on the heat, period. he was going to be a heat player. riley wanted him at 5 years and bc had to convince him for 6 and a sign and trade.
""League sources say Riley is trying to convince Bosh to take the five-year max deal and leave Toronto outright. The Raptors are trying to persuade Bosh to demand a six-year deal and a sign-and-trade so that they get something out of the deal.
Earlier this week, the Raptors reportedly had been reluctant to do a sign-and-trade, especially with Miami, contending the Heat did not have any players of interest. But if Bosh leaves outright, the Raptors are left with, at most, $4 million in cap space to replace Bosh.
One source with knowledge of Toronto's thinking told ESPN.com's Marc Stein that the Raptors, as of 9 a.m. ET, had yet to hear anything official from Bosh's camp about his intentions.
Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo, in a text message to The Associated Press on Wednesday morning, said, "I have nothing official from anyone.""
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if i take this at face value then the reason we got nothing for bosh is because miami had nothing. they had 46 million in cap space, so no assets except beasely. in this case bosh couldnt give a list of preferable teams and let them bid against each other, meanwhile telling colangelo he wants miami. he is now not a member of the toronto raptors and cares as much as we care about the shits we flush.
"i am going to miami, here is your scraps."(quote not verified to be by chris bosh)
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Apollo wrote: View PostI can't stand it when people put words in my mouth. Bosh gave no indication that he wasn't going to give the Raptors a chance, he hinted the opposite. He had no intent of staying, it was blatantly obvious come the off-season and there were reports that the trio might have met at the all-star game even to talk about their off-season.
If Bosh had been straight with the Raptors do you honestly think they would have sat on him and let his contract play out? Other teams are indicating that scenario is bad business and not a likely outcome in the future.
The above scenarios are just examples, but the point is that Toronto WAS an option, but only if the other 4 or more options didn't pan out. I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. The fact that Toronto was the last option was plain to see for everybody outside of Toronto. Like I said, I recall internet polls on 'Where will Bosh sign in 2010', and even Cleveland was ahead of Toronto (i.e. Bosh joining Lebron on the Cavs). This sort of speculation started in 2008, with plenty of time for BC to assess the situation. BC chose to bet the farm on an extremely low probability option (which you even agree that is the case). That's the real issue here. Bosh is not to blame here, it's Colangelo's risk/reward assessment.
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golden wrote: View PostYou are making big assumptions here. Bosh was keeping his options open and the Raptors were one of them. What if Miami wasn't able to clear enough cap space and Bosh had to take too deep a pay cut for his liking? Recall that they made the Beasley trade at the last minute. Would Riley have to 'settle' for Lebron and Wade with Bosh being the odd man out? Then would the Bulls would be the next choice? What if the Bulls signed Amare first? Would Bosh be willing to go to the Knicks as the lone star?
The above scenarios are just examples, but the point is that Toronto WAS an option, but only if the other 4 or more options didn't pan out. I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. The fact that Toronto was the last option was plain to see for everybody outside of Toronto. Like I said, I recall internet polls on 'Where will Bosh sign in 2010', and even Cleveland was ahead of Toronto (i.e. Bosh joining Lebron on the Cavs). This sort of speculation started in 2008, with plenty of time for BC to assess the situation. BC chose to bet the farm on an extremely low probability option (which you even agree that is the case). That's the real issue here. Bosh is not to blame here, it's Colangelo's risk/reward assessment.
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I just remember the Raptors being in the playoff race when trade deadline passed, so he did not want to break the team at that moment. Sh!t happened after and the Bosh injury sealed it.“I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”
-- Charles Barkley
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golden wrote: View PostLike I said, I recall internet polls on 'Where will Bosh sign in 2010', and even Cleveland was ahead of Toronto (i.e. Bosh joining Lebron on the Cavs).Two beer away from being two beers away.
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Mess wrote: View PostI meant to reply to this last time, but really, what the f#$% do internet polls have to do with anything?
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Miekenstien wrote: View Postso same argument for cleveland gm that lost lebron?
The Raptors didn't have much going for them in Bosh's last year. If everything went perfectly we might've sneaked into round 2, only if everything went perfectly.
Houston was an obvious trading partner as someone willing to take a gamble that Bosh would stick around and offer us more than the nothing we got from the Heat. Colangelo got greedy and we got less out of it than we did for Carter.
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Letter N wrote: View PostI disagree with this, the Cavs had a reason to not trade away Lebron even if they thought he would leave because they were the odds on favourites to win the Championship.
The Raptors didn't have much going for them in Bosh's last year. If everything went perfectly we might've sneaked into round 2, only if everything went perfectly.
Houston was an obvious trading partner as someone willing to take a gamble that Bosh would stick around and offer us more than the nothing we got from the Heat. Colangelo got greedy and we got less out of it than we did for Carter.
Carter and Bosh were no where near the same talent. Vince led off ESPN every single night at one point. Plus Vince was under contract whereas Bosh was unrestricted. Comparing the two is ridiculous in my opinion.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostThey were 5th heading in to the all-star weekend. If the Raptors went out their best player, you think that would go over well with the fan base?
Carter and Bosh were no where near the same talent. Vince led off ESPN every single night at one point. Plus Vince was under contract whereas Bosh was unrestricted. Comparing the two is ridiculous in my opinion.
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golden wrote: View PostIf Bosh ended up bolting from Houston for Miami, then BC would look like a genius. Sure there would be heat from the fanbase for a few months after the trade deadline, but then it would have flipped to kudos in the summer. Yeah, it's all hindsight now, but again, the implication that Bosh was somehow mis-leading the organization and that is the reason we got next to nothing in return for him is ludicrous. The Raptors were Bosh's 4th or 5th option behind Miami, Bulls, Knicks & Cavs, depending upon: (1) what happened at the 2010 trade deadline, (2) where Amare & Boozer landed, (3) cap space of those aforementioned teams, (4) how much of a salary hit Bosh needed to take and of course, where Lebron and Wade ended up.
But I do agree that Bosh isn't to blame for Colangelo's decision to stand pat. I should point out that I fully understand Colangelo's reasoning for not pulling the trigger at the 2010 trade deadline. But Colangelo gambled and lost. He's really the only person responsible for what happened.
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golden wrote: View PostIf Bosh ended up bolting from Houston for Miami, then BC would look like a genius. Sure there would be heat from the fanbase for a few months after the trade deadline, but then it would have flipped to kudos in the summer. Yeah, it's all hindsight now, but again, the implication that Bosh was somehow mis-leading the organization and that is the reason we got next to nothing in return for him is ludicrous. The Raptors were Bosh's 4th or 5th option behind Miami, Bulls, Knicks & Cavs, depending upon: (1) what happened at the 2010 trade deadline, (2) where Amare & Boozer landed, (3) cap space of those aforementioned teams, (4) how much of a salary hit Bosh needed to take and of course, where Lebron and Wade ended up.
There is nothing new in your post that has not already been contradicted.... and I can offer nothing new that has already not been contradicted either. It comes down to what side of the fence you view the few known facts.
The reality is no one knows if Bosh told the organization if he was leaving or not. Without a direct answer from him and public denials of rumours stating he wanted out, I imagine BC took him at face value. Clearly this was the wrong thing to do and it also flew in the face of a long history of NBA free agency minus one notable exception.
Legally and contractually Bosh owed Toronto nothing and, as it turns out, he gave them nothing. Morally and ethically one could paint any picture they want based on their values.
In the end, the league has a new rule: your guy refuses a max deal, trade him. While extensions in the new CBA are shorter and offer less guaranteed money, sign and trades are also shorter and offer less guaranteed money as does signing with a new team in UFA. I guess they are a wash and the extra year, $20M dollars, and 7.5% raises will be harder to turn down with the S&T gone.Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon Aug 13, 2012, 12:25 PM.
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