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The Battle for 8

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  • #16
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    We don't have a so called superstar. Neither does Denver but, that team has amazing chemistry. That's why chemistry is that much important. We've seen it before that chemistry trumps talent. We have the talent and depth needed to compete in this conference.
    Lowry, Fields, Jonas, Ross, represent 4 new players in our top 8 rotation. Yes, they're all good character individuals, but chemistry has not developed yet. It will take time. We shouldn't be writing like it's a given.

    Besides, I'm not sure if chemistry will help much if Bargnani is missing 50 games, or we're only scoring 90 pts/game (for example).

    Comment


    • #17
      Nilanka wrote: View Post
      - Bargnani has to stay healthy for at least 70 games.
      - Calderon can't show any effect of being demoted (which sort of plays into the chemistry idea).
      - Valanciunas/Ross need to be contributing solid minutes by the end of the year
      - Landry has to return to his rookie form
      - Kleiza's knee needs to remain strong coming off the Olympics
      - Lowry needs to prove no ill-effects remain from his injury
      - Casey needs to drastically improve the offensive structure
      - etc.

      I can't confidently say that any of the above are guarantees, but it's easy to see the season going south if any of the above don't happen.

      Chemistry is a big deal...I definitely agree with that, especially with so many new faces. But for a team that lacks elite/superstar talent, a LOT has to go our way to make the playoffs.
      Just to make a quick correction. Lowry wasn't injured he had a bacterial infection that could have killed him if it wasn't found out.

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      • #18
        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
        I certainly think playoffs should be the realistic goal for the Raptors this season. I'm done with dealing with lowered expectations, I think it's time that BC, DC and the players are all held accountable.

        Here is how I would breakdown teams in the East:

        Sure Thing
        - Miami
        - Indiana

        Probable
        - Boston
        - New York

        Likely
        - Chicago
        - Brooklyn
        - Philadelphia
        - Atlanta
        --> Toronto would have to beat out a team from this group to make the playoffs, even assuming that none of the "unlikely" teams jump up into the "likely" group

        Unlikely
        - Milwaukee
        - Washington
        - Cleveland
        - Detroit
        - Orlando

        No Chance
        - Charlotte


        Ultimately, I think Chicago & Atlanta will benefit from playing in much weaker divisions, meaning 6 spots are set.

        That leaves 2 spots up for grabs. Toronto will have to fight Brooklyn, Philadelphia and any other suprise teams for the #7 and #8 spots.
        Sleeping on Washington? Nene could very well be the second best Centre in the East after Bynum and ahead of Chandler. Also, Beal may not be AS ready as Blake Griffin to transition to the NBA, but he's close in my opinion (not in impact, but readiness). Wall finally has guys to dish to and is going to have a monster year imho.

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        • #19
          DG88 wrote: View Post
          Just to make a quick correction. Lowry wasn't injured he had a bacterial infection that could have killed him if it wasn't found out.

          Actually it was both, he had a bacterial infection, and then had a groin injury and sports hernia
          TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

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          • #20
            Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
            IMO I don't think things have to go perfectly right for 8. We just need chemistry. To get a high seed than 8 than everything has to right. Just like 06-07. Some way this team reminds me of that team. Every player compliments the team perfectly.
            Everything needs to go right for the Raps to have a shot at the 8th seed.

            Nothing worng with optimism but reality wins out the majority of the time.

            They won 23 games last year no? They've added players but I'd be hard pressed to say any of them are game changers as JV is not ready to be that type of player, yet.

            The 06/07 team had Chris Bosh. There is no one on this team as good as he was.

            It's nice to have complimentary players but elite talent wins in this league. It would be great if Lowry could take that kind of jump but it's hard to envision that.

            Comment


            • #21
              Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              We don't have a so called superstar. Neither does Denver but, that team has amazing chemistry. That's why chemistry is that much important. We've seen it before that chemistry trumps talent. We have the talent and depth needed to compete in this conference.
              That Denver team has more talent than the Raps do and they got even more talented this year with the offseason move of bringing in AI.

              Comment


              • #22
                sleepz wrote: View Post
                Everything needs to go right for the Raps to have a shot at the 8th seed.

                Nothing worng with optimism but reality wins out the majority of the time.

                They won 23 games last year no? They've added players but I'd be hard pressed to say any of them are game changers as JV is not ready to be that type of player, yet.

                The 06/07 team had Chris Bosh. There is no one on this team as good as he was.

                It's nice to have complimentary players but elite talent wins in this league. It would be great if Lowry could take that kind of jump but it's hard to envision that.

                IMO Bargnani draws just as much defensive attention than Bosh did.
                @Chr1st1anL

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                • #23
                  Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                  IMO Bargnani draws just as much defensive attention than Bosh did.
                  But he doesn't demand double-teams the way Bosh did.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    draftedraptor wrote: View Post
                    Milwakee should be in the likely list.

                    Raps in the unlikely.

                    Brookyln in the probables

                    Cleveland, orlando and detroit on the no chance list
                    I didn't put the Raptors in any category - I just indicated where they would need to be and which teams they'd most likely need to displace in order to make the playoffs. I would agree that they are one of several teams that are hovering on the bubble between "likely" and "unlikely", which is essentially the fight for 8th.

                    I almost put Brooklyn in "Probables", but I'm not quite ready to give it to them, for the following reasons:
                    - D.Williams, J.Johnson and G.Wallace have all been at their best with the ball in their hands, as the primary scorer, especially DW/JJ... I'm curious to see how they'll handle sharing the ball more and playing off each other... at the very least, there will be an adjustment period
                    - Wallace seemed to lose a step last year and, as a player who has relied on his athleticism, it has yet to be seen whether or not he can return to form, or be just an average player
                    - the entire starting lineup (DWill, JJ, Wallace, Humphries, Lopez) is pretty weak defensively, so they'll need to score lots of points
                    - their bench is weak, so the the starters will be heavily relied upon... is DWill/JJ were to get injured, this team is really no better than NJ was last year

                    I left Cleveland, Detroit and Orlando in the "Unlikely" group because they have enough intriguing young, talented pieces that they could surprise, plus they are all substantially better than Charlotte.

                    Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                    Sleeping on Washington? Nene could very well be the second best Centre in the East after Bynum and ahead of Chandler. Also, Beal may not be AS ready as Blake Griffin to transition to the NBA, but he's close in my opinion (not in impact, but readiness). Wall finally has guys to dish to and is going to have a monster year imho.
                    For me, Washington & Milwaukee were the toughest calls between "Likely" or "Unlikely".

                    Milwaukee
                    - without Bogut, they weren't very good
                    - which Dalembert will show up? the effective, defensive anchor, or the moody me-first one?
                    - will Ilyasova prove he's worth his shiny new contract, or will he rest on his laurels?
                    - will Ellis do anything to disprove that he's a volume scoring ball hog, who can actually put the team first?

                    Washington
                    - yes they improved their character and depth, but none of Nene, Okafor or Ariza are players that can carry their teams (they're primarily defensive-minded players)
                    - all the scoring will fall to Wall and Beal, who's a rookie
                    - their bench has a few decent young players with potential (Vesely, Crawford & Booker), but I still think their bench is fairly weak, which doesn't help answer the question "where will their scoring come from?"


                    ---

                    If Brooklyn stays healthy, they very well could make it 7 solidified playoff spots (Miami, Indiana, Boston, New York, Chicago, Atlanta and Brooklyn), leaving several teams fighting for #8 in the East: Toronto, Phildelphia and whichever other team(s) jump up as the 'best of the rest' (Milwaukee, Washington, Detroit, Cleveland, Orlando and Charlotte).

                    Toronto's toughest challenge is the fact they play in what should be the strongest division in the Eastern conference, with Boston, NY, Brooklyn and Philly. Chicago & Milwaukee benefit from playing Cleveland/Detroit more, while Atlanta & Washington benefit from playing Charlotte/Orlando more.
                    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Aug 13, 2012, 05:04 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Nilanka wrote: View Post
                      But he doesn't demand double-teams the way Bosh did.
                      It's hard to double Bargnani cause of where he plays on the court(Free-throw line and up) than Bosh
                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • #26
                        Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                        It's hard to double Bargnani cause of where he plays on the court(Free-throw line and up) than Bosh
                        Completely agree. But since you can't send a 2nd defender, it's easy to conclude that Bosh required more defensive attention than Bargnani.

                        Anyways, to get back on topic, chemistry is a very big deal, no doubt. But this team needs to stay relatively injury free, players need to maintain (or even improve upon) their career bests, and Casey needs to improve too.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          Completely agree. But since you can't send a 2nd defender, it's easy to conclude that Bosh required more defensive attention than Bargnani.

                          Anyways, to get back on topic, chemistry is a very big deal, no doubt. But this team needs to stay relatively injury free, players need to maintain (or even improve upon) their career bests, and Casey needs to improve too.
                          I would agree that health and chemistry will be a big factor.
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • #28
                            Here's what Steve Brotherston thinks

                            Ned Flanders
                            Forget the 8th seed… Can the Raptors get the 7th or even the 6th seed? Or do the Raps need everything to go perfect which includes a healthy Bargs and effective rookies to get higher than 8th??

                            Stephen Brotherston
                            It’s the if everything goes right for Toronto and a couple of other teams struggle with the changes they made – or run into injury problems – situation.

                            YES, of course Toronto could find themselves ahead of a team like the Knicks who had chemistry and injury concerns last year, 7th or even 6th is possible – Toronto could also end up in 10th behind the 76ers & Bucks if Toronto runs into injury or chemistry issues. That’s why we play the games.
                            Christian
                            What’s the ceiling for this Raptors team?

                            Stephen Brotherston
                            I put the Raptors ceiling this year at 6th place – and that will take a couple of teams to under perform – possible this year with all the roster moves. BUT – I expect them to fight it out for 8th and end up somewhere between 7th-10th.

                            That’s the hour for today. Thanks for all the great comments and questions.
                            With all the changes we’ve seen to rosters in the NBA – it’s going to be an exciting season with surprise teams more the norm than usual.
                            Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Mon Aug 13, 2012, 05:23 PM.
                            @Chr1st1anL

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                            • #29
                              Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                              Here's what Steve Brotherston thinks
                              7th to 10th seems solid for me. Even though I think we'd be a team that makes it to the 8th, or just misses at the 9th.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                                7th to 10th seems solid for me. Even though I think we'd be a team that makes it to the 8th, or just misses at the 9th.
                                Agreed... 7th - 9th in the East seems about right.

                                The only benefit about just missing the playoffs this season is that we'd giveup a 2013 end-of-the-lottery 1st round pick to Houston, to complete the Lowry trade. By giving up the pick right away, it takes away the uncertainty surrounding the conditional pick involved, while also allowing the Raps to once again include future 1st round picks (starting with the 2015 pick) in potential trades.

                                It would give the rookies (Valanciunas, Ross & Acy) time to acclimate themselves to the NBA, all the young guys a chance to develop individually (rookies, DeRozan, Davis), final evaluations to be made on expiring young contracts (ie: DeRozan, Davis), and the revamped roster a chance to develop some chemistry together, while gaining experience running DC's offensive/defensive systems together.

                                I'm not pushing for missing the playoffs or tanking, but if the Raptors are going to miss the playoffs at all during the next 5 seasons, I'd prefer it to be this year and prefer them to get a late lottery pick... thinking purely about the conditional 1st round pick going to Houston and all the various positive/negative ramifications of the conditions placed on the pick.

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