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Article about Bargnani's defense...and no, it's not all bad.

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  • #16
    I agree with everything in the article. I also want to add something to the article. Bargnani, in his NBA career, sometimes seemed uninterested in the game on the rebounding end. Sometimes I feel like he doesn't have any motor at all. No interest in rebounding for balls or even fighting for loose balls. Although last season, I've seen sparks where he seems interested but it's not always there. Need to see more of that energy from him.

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    • #17
      Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
      I agree with everything in the article. I also want to add something to the article. Bargnani, in his NBA career, sometimes seemed uninterested in the game on the rebounding end. Sometimes I feel like he doesn't have any motor at all. No interest in rebounding for balls or even fighting for loose balls. Although last season, I've seen sparks where he seems interested but it's not always there. Need to see more of that energy from him.
      Agreed. Defensive rebounding is a huge part of the defense in general. How many guys have had career nights against the Raptors and/or Bargnani in the paint and on the glass.

      I don't care how many boards he grabs because it is a team game. As long as he boxes out and his man doesn't get the ball, I'm happy. The Raps have shown with him on the floor they can out rebound the opposition. Bargnani critics will likely say that is another example of lowering the bar for him.... and they'd be right when it comes to statistical rebounding. But to be honest, I don't give a shit anymore. He is such a unique talent and appears to be on the verge of really putting his career together whereby he capitalizes on his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses. If I'm wrong on that, he can pack his bags with Colangelo after next season ('13-14).

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      • #18
        Nilanka wrote: View Post
        It's because of the modern NBA rules (i.e. lax hand-checking). No perimeter player is capable of guarding another 1-on-1.

        If you're 7-feet tall, you're expected to rotate. That's just the way the game is designed nowadays.
        That is exactly what I was thinking. Couldn't have said it better myself.
        Walking like I'm already there.

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        • #19

          Unfortunately, if you have too much time on your hands, as I have over the past four years, you can actually watch the game video and discover that, whoops, often Bargnani was actually defending the better offensive threat due to his raw height. Surprise!
          That does come as a suprise to me as I haven't found that to be true. Bargnani's match ups were very much situational where he covered PFs when out with Gray, Cs when out with Ed, and either or (depending on match up) when out with Amir. There seemed to be a definite attempt to keep him from having to 'bang' with the Cs in general, except in certain cases of elite PFs.

          Now I could very well be wrong here (although I feel confident in my above statement) but it would be nice for the writer to provide some evidence, especially since he is the one trying to counter criticism of the legitamacy of statistics and claiming people need to understand the 'nuance' of statistics.

          This to would be interesting to see considering he missed half a season (therefore missed alot of possession vs most players), and seemed to play a large portion of his minutes at PF and thereby less time in the post (not that playing PF doesn't mean said person doesn't play in the post, but its a much less common than a C). Yes his sample of post D probably exceeds most perimeter players and very deep bench players, but most big men? His minutes played alone keeps him at the low end of statistical valuations. A quick example, he played 70% of the total minutes Ed Davis did.

          That doesn't even touch pace, in which the Raps was one of the slowest in the league, or percentage of possessions where the Raptors played zone defense as opposed to man defense (and this is a guess here, but it wouldn't come as a suprise if the Raps played more zone than most NBA teams. Nothing to back that up however)

          Looking at all those combined its not hard to imagine Bargnani's actual sample of possessions used is very low compared to the most players, as opposed to high as the writer is trying to infer.


          I do think Bargnani's man defense is ok. He doesn't leave his man and he doesn't go for pump fakes. He'll keep his hands up or out when his man has the ball. But I also think some of that leads to the problem of his defense in general. He doesn't leave his man so he doesn't help. He doesn't go for pump fakes because he never jumps - which is good outside the post, not necessarily so much while in the post or in a position to help protect the rim.

          In the pick and roll he was a hedging machine this past year. But he was also routine about it and got burned many times by his man simply slipping the screen.

          His help defense was simply bad yet again. And as Nilanka pointed out in todays NBA (of no hand checking) help defense is very important especially from big men.

          Rebounding has ofcourse always been, and likely always will be, an issue.

          I think 'robotic' would be the best way to judge Bargnani's D. It has seemed as if coaches have asked him to do X or Y while in a situation, and thats what he does. But there is little to no room for the unexpected to occur without it becoming a problem, amplified by slow decision making and reaction time while on D.

          There is little doubt in my mind that Casey system has had a profound impact. The team avoided offensive rebounds like they were a disease in order to run back and get into position. Slow pace to keep possessions low. Heavy doses of zone defenses.


          I think saying Bargnani is ok defensively in certain situations is fair, but taking a few isolated snap shots doesn't come close to describing the big picture.

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          • #20
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Agreed. Defensive rebounding is a huge part of the defense in general. How many guys have had career nights against the Raptors and/or Bargnani in the paint and on the glass.

            I don't care how many boards he grabs because it is a team game. As long as he boxes out and his man doesn't get the ball, I'm happy. The Raps have shown with him on the floor they can out rebound the opposition. Bargnani critics will likely say that is another example of lowering the bar for him.... and they'd be right when it comes to statistical rebounding. But to be honest, I don't give a shit anymore. He is such a unique talent and appears to be on the verge of really putting his career together whereby he capitalizes on his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses. If I'm wrong on that, he can pack his bags with Colangelo after next season ('13-14).
            I agree Matt. But I think as Blacklash mentioned when Bargnani seems uninterested it really pisses the fans off . I can not even imagine how the coaches feel. Because when you see the effort to shoot a difficult off balanced shot and the lack of effort to box out is sometimes extremely frustrating. The worst thing is that he is very talented. That can not be denied. Please don't get me wrong - I don't hate Bargnani. I can't say I like him too much either but he is on our team and we saw flashes of what he can be last season. I think that Bargnani is talented enough to be a good (not a great) but good DEFENDER in the league."If" is a huge word but if he plays like those famous 13 games last season and improves a bit we would have a really good franchise player. Like many of us I have been patient and yes, this must be it. This season - prove it or go somewhere else.

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            • #21
              Nothing new here. I even sincerely doubt he watched the tape as much as he claimed, probably just read the nbaplaybook articles of last year.

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              • #22
                Even more questions on Bargs' defense?

                http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog...nsive-numbers/
                TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

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