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HoopsWorld.com : Six Reasons Why Toronto Makes the Playoffs

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  • #16
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Right.... Brotherston is not a journalist nor is Simmons and if you ever read (any off season report) or watch (draft night?) Hollinger, it is hard to not see him as biased. The only less objective view point I can think of is SheridanHoops.com.

    So outside of that, do you not agree the Raptors are better on paper than last season? That more practice time and a less hectic game schedule should help Casey get his teachings and game tactics ingrained? Have Raptor weaknesses not been addressed?

    Say what you will about me Craiger but at least I am objective. In your haste to attempt to discredit me, you don't seem to realize my last paragraph essentially agrees with your post.

    I only have one question for you: hypocrite much?
    Your right, I'm a hypocrite. I can always rely on you to try and discredit someone else by open mindedly labelling them as bias.

    I'm glad you THINK your objective. Repeat it enough times and it may well become true.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_blind_spot

    Comment


    • #17
      Craiger wrote: View Post
      Your right, I'm a hypocrite. I can always rely on you to try and discredit someone else by open mindedly labelling them as bias.

      I'm glad you THINK your objective. Repeat it enough times and it may well become true.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_blind_spot
      Your post called Brotherston's article a 'puff piece' for what I have assumed to be his optimism on this upcoming season where the team appears to be better, will have more time with Casey, and has addressed weaknesses.

      I asked what was wrong with the opinion as from your history of posts it seems anything with optimism comes with a rebuttal from yourself (much like anything with negativity often meets a rebuttal from me).

      I then agreed with your statement of everything having to go right for the Raptors is not going to happen.


      You came back with what I would call garbage. It did not address any question I asked you and was 100% petty. The second reply was the same - you ignored the same questions. As always, a pleasant exchange that refuses to concretely address anything of optimism currently happening in RaptorLand with specific comments or ideas.

      Comment


      • #18
        Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Your post called Brotherston's article a 'puff piece' for what I have assumed to be his optimism on this upcoming season where the team appears to be better, will have more time with Casey, and has addressed weaknesses.

        I asked what was wrong with the opinion as from your history of posts it seems anything with optimism comes with a rebuttal from yourself (much like anything with negativity often meets a rebuttal from me).

        I then agreed with your statement of everything having to go right for the Raptors is not going to happen.


        You came back with what I would call garbage. It did not address any question I asked you and was 100% petty. The second reply was the same - you ignored the same questions. As always, a pleasant exchange that refuses to concretely address anything of optimism currently happening in RaptorLand with specific comments or ideas.
        And your 'open minded' thinking, or 'objectivity' shows up again.

        And just so we are clear about this it isn't a puff peice simply because its 'optimistic'. Its a puff peice because its parroting, it numbers without consistency, and its simpelton logic.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias


        (PS. I ignored your questions because they were straw men)

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        • #19
          Craiger wrote: View Post
          And your 'open minded' thinking, or 'objectivity' shows up again.

          And just so we are clear about this it isn't a puff peice simply because its 'optimistic'. Its a puff peice because its parroting, it numbers without consistency, and its simpelton logic.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias


          (PS. I ignored your questions because they were straw men)

          And you question my open- mindedness and objectivity?

          So let me get this straight:

          You are calling the article a puff piece because he uses a variety of stats to support his position but yet you don't actually give specifics on what you are in disagreement over?


          Also, please tell me how am I misrepresenting your position instead of passing the buck. Please give actual specifics on why the Raptors will not make the playoffs. Brotherston wrote an article on why the Raptors will make the playoffs. Instead of calling it a puff piece and taking jabs at me (even when I originally agreed with one of your points) could you tell us why you don't think the Raptors will make the playoffs with something more specific than 'not everything will go right for the team'? Using that 'simpleton logic' one could easily counter that not everything will go wrong.

          Comment


          • #20
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            And you question my open- mindedness and objectivity?

            So let me get this straight:

            You are calling the article a puff piece because he uses a variety of stats to support his position but yet you don't actually give specifics on what you are in disagreement over?


            Also, please tell me how am I misrepresenting your position instead of passing the buck. Please give actual specifics on why the Raptors will not make the playoffs. Brotherston wrote an article on why the Raptors will make the playoffs. Instead of calling it a puff piece and taking jabs at me (even when I originally agreed with one of your points) could you tell us why you don't think the Raptors will make the playoffs with something more specific than 'not everything will go right for the team'? Using that 'simpleton logic' one could easily counter that not everything will go wrong.
            By the way, the attempt here is to get better insight in to your (Craiger's) thoughts and opinions to better inform the thoughts and opinions I already have. Personally, I think that is kind of open-minded on my part and showing some objectivity. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure a Wikipedia link could show that to be the case.

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            • #21
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              And you question my open- mindedness and objectivity?

              So let me get this straight:

              You are calling the article a puff piece because he uses a variety of stats to support his position but yet you don't actually give specifics on what you are in disagreement over?


              Also, please tell me how am I misrepresenting your position instead of passing the buck. Please give actual specifics on why the Raptors will not make the playoffs. Brotherston wrote an article on why the Raptors will make the playoffs. Instead of calling it a puff piece and taking jabs at me (even when I originally agreed with one of your points) could you tell us why you don't think the Raptors will make the playoffs with something more specific than 'not everything will go right for the team'? Using that 'simpleton logic' one could easily counter that not everything will go wrong.
              Oh please I already stated how the stats were inconsistent. Go back and read. I'm not going to breakdown his entire article because you want me to or simply won't research how yourself.

              You were the one who responded to me remember? The one who made assumptions. I'm not "passing the buck".

              Oh and I never said the Raptors will not make the playoffs. Nor did I say everything will go wrong. Straw men again.

              Comment


              • #22
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                By the way, the attempt here is to get better insight in to your (Craiger's) thoughts and opinions to better inform the thoughts and opinions I already have. Personally, I think that is kind of open-minded on my part and showing some objectivity. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure a Wikipedia link could show that to be the case.
                The links were for your information. You are quick to accuse others of being closed minded or bias, while claiming your own open mindedness and objectivity. .

                Comment


                • #23
                  Craiger wrote: View Post
                  Oh please I already stated how the stats were inconsistent. Go back and read. I'm not going to breakdown his entire article because you want me to or simply won't research how yourself.

                  You were the one who responded to me remember? The one who made assumptions. I'm not "passing the buck".

                  Oh and I never said the Raptors will not make the playoffs. Nor did I say everything will go wrong. Straw men again.
                  You made a general statement about statistics. If you are going to call out Brotherston as puff piece, you could at least explain why in more than a sentence with more thought than what is for dinner. While you claim I lack objectivity and am not open minded, every criticism I gave of Hollinger or Simmons at least had reasoned opinions behind it.

                  Yes, I did respond asking questions that you continually jump around while also agreeing with the premise Brotherston has painted a situation where 'everything' goes right for the Raptors. Too bad you rely on the straw man b.s. without actually clarifying anything leaving one to make assumptions on your posts. If you agree with Brotherston's premise (that the Raptors will make the playoffs) why not explain? If you don't agree with Brotherston, why not explain? If you actually don't have an opinion and are just making noise why not state that.

                  It is pretty tough to misrepresent your position when as you have clearly stated above you have not actually stated an opinion. Remember the article is about why the Raptors will make the playoffs.

                  I suggest you go back and read the posts. If I've offended you in the original reply I do apologize but that was not the intent. If I have made incorrect assumptions I really would have liked an explanation versus a bitchy reply about Hollinger or Simmons. I always thought the purpose of the forums was discussion not cop out replies about straw men.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Guys, guys... There's no need to argue.

                    If you agree with the article, good.

                    If you feel negative about the Raptors, refer to that other thread that I'm too lazy to link to. Or just wallow in your despair. Or go party with Jamshid on the front page articles. LOL
                    TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I can't argue with the stats Brotherston presented in his article. But since he was just a regular poster on this site, then went on to write for Bleacher Report, there's an "amateur hour" feeling surrounding everything he writes. Just my opinion, of course (based on unreliable first impressions).

                      Having said that, I hope he's right about the Raptors making the playoffs. But I wouldn't feel comfortable making assertions that it WILL happen.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Craiger wrote: View Post
                        Oh please I already stated how the stats were inconsistent. Go back and read. I'm not going to breakdown his entire article because you want me to or simply won't research how yourself.
                        Your complaint about his stat usage doesn't seem valid in this case since all of the stats he used in the article are per game (points per game, FTA per game, steals per game). So if all of his stats are consistent, and his points are valid, then what is the issue?

                        It's definitely a positive article, but perhaps the point isn't that the Raptors will make the playoffs, but rather pointing out the areas of success where the team could make the playoffs.
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                        • #27
                          News Flash boys, every piece by every writer is an opinion piece (or "puff piece") in August & September - there are no hard facts to go on as no team has played a game with the new lineups, heck, training camps haven't even started. No team really knows if the moves they made in the off season will pan out - let alone anyone in the media. But that's not a reason to avoid looking at what's happened and trying to draw some early conclusions.

                          Articles/rankings/etc written now are to generate discussion about the moves teams have made, might make and whether or not those moves will make the team better - if you want hard-core researched stuff, you'll have to wait until the season starts and we get to start interviewing guys after all those new players on the various teams actually get to play together.

                          Personally, I like the off season - Supporting or trashing the moves made by a GM over the summer is a sport in and of itself.
                          The best Raptors discussion board is at Raptors Republic.

                          Stephen Brotherston, Pro Bball Report

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                          • #28
                            brothersteve wrote: View Post
                            ...Personally, I like the off season - Supporting or trashing the moves made by a GM over the summer is a sport in and of itself.
                            That's nothing compared to supporting or trashing posts made by loony tunes RR citizens. You guys know who you are. Now just stop it.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              A possible 7th reason why Toronto could make the playoffs:

                              With Washington one of those lottery teams making big improvements and possibly challenging for a playoff spot, missing Wall 12 games and then watching him return from injury and get in to game form could be upwards of 25 games - nearly a third of the season.

                              An unfortunate blow for Washington might be a bit of luck for Toronto. WSH hardly has depth at PG.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                "...he’ll be very motivated to make a strong debut, even if that debut isn’t until December."

                                Here's hoping he doesn't rush his return to the floor and sustain a more significant injury. Something young players are wont to do.

                                It might be good for TO is he did, but that is not the way you want to sneak into the play-offs.

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