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  • #31
    ahahahaha math certainly works,

    Im not arguing they WONT make the playoffs, im arguing they arent consensus top 5, especially not first in the division!
    I dont think you can say terry replaces allen, NO ONE can replace allen. Grown man Rondo is a good argument, and is my reason that they even make the playoffs. I dont think old geezer KG + old geezer Peirce can prove elite talent in the east.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    • #32
      enlightenment wrote: View Post
      ahahahaha math certainly works,

      Im not arguing they WONT make the playoffs, im arguing they arent consensus top 5, especially not first in the division!
      I dont think you can say terry replaces allen, NO ONE can replace allen. Grown man Rondo is a good argument, and is my reason that they even make the playoffs. I dont think old geezer KG + old geezer Peirce can prove elite talent in the east.
      Let's look at Boston's offseason
      1.Lost Ray Allen
      2. Signed Jason Terry
      3. Got Courtney Lee
      4. Jeff Green returns from injury.

      Jason Terry+ Courtney Lee+ Jeff Green> loss of ray Allen.
      It's clear Boston has gotten better. Every season since 2008 people have said Boston will fall off because of their age. Never happened. I'll believe it when I see it. Garnett played extremely well last season and showed only a few signs of aging. I don't think he'll drop off completely this season. Same with pierce. Boston may make a steady decline after this season due to age. But right now I see them as better or the same as last year.

      I think Chicago could go either way. They're not talentless but have certainly fallen off. They were also 1st in the east last season. So even though they lost rose does that mean they'll drop so far barely or not to make the playoffs? To me they can go either way. I could see them get home court but I wouldn't be surprised if they missed the playoffs either.

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      • #33
        Boston didn't get better? What?

        Terry, Bosa, and Courtney makes well up for Allen and adds great depth in the back court. Rondo is only gonna get better. Sullinger/Melo is a nice infusion of youth (and Sullinger is a Doc Rivers player). Bradley (when healthy) and a Jeff Green that looks like he is ready to ball.

        Plus veterans like Pierce and KG.

        Top 5 for sure.

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        • #34
          And to address the original post, I say the Raps get 38(the way they look right now). I want them to do better, and I hope with some development and chemistry they will, but right now I think 38 wins is pretty accurate. I think getting to the playoffs will be a lot harder than people think, and Casey is going to really need to get these guys together and on the same page for it to happen.

          EDIT: I think it is important to note that if this team is relatively injury free, 7th or 6th seed is where they should be looking to get, but that is a huge if.
          Last edited by Red and White; Tue Oct 23rd, 2012, 09:18 PM.

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          • #35
            Red and White wrote: View Post
            Boston didn't get better? What?

            Terry, Bosa, and Courtney makes well up for Allen and adds great depth in the back court. Rondo is only gonna get better. Sullinger/Melo is a nice infusion of youth (and Sullinger is a Doc Rivers player). Bradley (when healthy) and a Jeff Green that looks like he is ready to ball.

            Plus veterans like Pierce and KG.

            Top 5 for sure.
            Completely forgot bosa and Sullinger in my post. I'm saying 2nd or 3rd in the east.

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            • #36
              tucas wrote: View Post
              Let's look at Boston's offseason
              1.Lost Ray Allen
              2. Signed Jason Terry
              3. Got Courtney Lee
              4. Jeff Green returns from injury.

              Jason Terry+ Courtney Lee+ Jeff Green> loss of ray Allen.
              It's clear Boston has gotten better. Every season since 2008 people have said Boston will fall off because of their age. Never happened. I'll believe it when I see it. Garnett played extremely well last season and showed only a few signs of aging. I don't think he'll drop off completely this season. Same with pierce. Boston may make a steady decline after this season due to age. But right now I see them as better or the same as last year.

              I think Chicago could go either way. They're not talentless but have certainly fallen off. They were also 1st in the east last season. So even though they lost rose does that mean they'll drop so far barely or not to make the playoffs? To me they can go either way. I could see them get home court but I wouldn't be surprised if they missed the playoffs either.
              Boston: 1) Jeff Green has proven nothing, some say he isnt capable of any impact whatsoever.
              2) Jason Terry isnt EVEN CLOSE to matching up with Ray Allens ability. Ray Allen had a niche that literally opened the entire Boston offense. Ray Allen shoots 45% 3pt as an average for the past two seasons. Jason terry is lucky to hit 35% this season. Do you remember all those off screen cuts that Ray allen was utilized for? Jason Terry will not produce in times of need. Not to mention he is also just as old and likely for a decline.
              3)Courtney Lee, I concede, is a good signing.

              Ultimately you can never judge a collection of inferior players as "better" than one player. None of those players can fill Ray Allens role, and none of them can guarantee a fit with in the system. The Celtics have been declining since their championship year, and none of their pieces seem to be able to reverse the momentum.

              PS. Celtics performing EXACTLY like last year is still 5th seed, anything lower (my prediction) can easily warrant a 6th or (my prediction) 7th seed.

              Chicago:
              Youre right losing Rose is not the end all be all. They played well without Rose at times and maintained Number 1 status. The real success in Chicago was their interior presence, brought to you by tough wings who defended against post ups, and strong bench big men who excelled in implementing the defensive scheme. It was a click in chemistry that formed their defense as such, and the best way to mess with chemistry is to gut the team that did it for you. Asik, Kyle Korver, C.J. Watson, Ronnie Brewer, John Lucas III and Mike James were all asked to leave. Each one had a SPECIFIC role on the team, each one had an understanding of their place in the scheme.

              Marco Belinelli is going to love his new defensive role (do you remember how horrid his defense was?) people of chicago will begin to hate his matador style defense and his shot happy offensive mindset. Nazir is out of the question, and in my opinion a terrible signing. These two plus Radmonovic are supposed to do what exactly? Equal the output of the best Bench Mob in the league last season??? Yeah right.
              Bulls are going to see a huge fall from number 1.
              The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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              • #37
                tucas wrote: View Post
                Completely forgot bosa and Sullinger in my post. I'm saying 2nd or 3rd in the east.
                REALLY? how do you suppose they stack up against Brooklyn, Philly, or Indiana?
                The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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                • #38
                  in dallas terry was primary ballhandler, it will be interesting to watch his 3pt% getting fed by rondo, not saying it falsely increased allen but i can see terry getting a slight bump if he lets rondo do the creating.

                  if jeff green can play like he did for the thunder, which is a level he played at for 3 years then he is most definitely an impact player. will he be starting at the 3? i think pierce might be a bit too slow to guard athletic 3s now.

                  i think that thier starting lineup will be rondo, lee, pierce, no pass, kg. then the bench with bradley, green, terry, sullinger, darko/melo. they are a pretty deep team



                  i dont believe the hype for brooklyn until they do something. i dont agree that lopez is anywhere near best c in the league no matter how much money they paid them. they are 2 star players deep with a rugged defender thrown in. this team is one injury away from playing d leaguers real minutes.

                  i have liked philly so far but if they have to deal with bynum being down a lot, they can suffer.

                  i would tend to give the celts the benefit of the doubt as they have done it year after year for 5 years now where brooklyn and philly are just offseason/preseason optimism right now until they prove something.

                  i think the east ends up

                  miami
                  indiana
                  boston
                  atlanta

                  and then catfight for bottom 4 spots but i really think boston wins the atlantic again and grabs that 3rd seed
                  Last edited by Miekenstien; Tue Oct 23rd, 2012, 10:11 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                    in dallas terry was primary ballhandler, it will be interesting to watch his 3pt% getting fed by rondo, not saying it falsely increased allen but i can see terry getting a slight bump if he lets rondo do the creating.

                    if jeff green can play like he did for the thunder, which is a level he played at for 3 years then he is most definitely an impact player. will he be starting at the 3? i think pierce might be a bit too slow to guard athletic 3s now.

                    i think that thier starting lineup will be rondo, lee, pierce, no pass, kg. then the bench with bradley, green, terry, sullinger, darko/melo. they are a pretty deep team



                    i dont believe the hype for brooklyn until they do something. i dont agree that lopez is anywhere near best c in the league no matter how much money they paid them. they are 2 star players deep with a rugged defender thrown in. this team is one injury away from playing d leaguers real minutes.

                    i have liked philly so far but if they have to deal with bynum being down a lot, they can suffer.

                    i would tend to give the celts the benefit of the doubt as they have done it year after year for 5 years now where brooklyn and philly are just offseason/preseason optimism right now until they prove something.

                    i think the east ends up

                    miami
                    indiana
                    boston
                    atlanta

                    and then catfight for bottom 4 spots but i really think boston wins the atlantic again and grabs that 3rd seed
                    +1 you wrote everything I was about to write. Only thing I disagree with is Atlanta at 4. Losing Marvin Williams and Joe Johnson was a huge hit. Devin Harris isn't gonna replace them. With a healthy horford they should still be a playoff team(no guarantee) but they will definitely be fighting for those last 3-4 spots

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                    • #40
                      enlightenment wrote: View Post
                      NoPropsneeded, Why exactly do you think Boston and Chicago will do so well??

                      Boston was 0.591% last year!!! The offseason did not make them BETTER, it made them WORSE. Losing Ray allen is HUGE. KG was already showing signs of deterioration last season, and Paul Pierce will not be able to compensate what has been lost! There is nothing holding them afloat, no bench, nada. I see them coming eerily close to the 0.500 line, which is Raptor territory. Raptors I believe can beat the Celtics.

                      Chicago lost EVERYTHING in the offseason. Asik, Kyle Korver, C.J. Watson, Ronnie Brewer, John Lucas III and Mike James. That is the entire Bench Mob that TORE the Eastern Conference last season (without DRose)
                      Who was added? Hinrich, Vladimir Radmanovic, Nazr Mohammad and Marco Belinelli. Really?? Do you think that the extreme team chemistry that made the BEST interior and wing defending team in the NBA possible will be coming back this season? You think that Deng, Noah, and Boozer can compete with the likes of Brooklyn, Indiana, and Philly (Obviously not Miami). I dont even think they can compete with Toronto (though i left them at 5th to be nice).

                      I would like to see why people are so high on Chicago and Boston after this summer.
                      Ray Allen is shit now, to put it boldly. Besides shooting 3's he can't do anything at this stage of his career. The Jet is an upgrade over allen just by himself and Jeff Green is up and coming and Courtney lee is solid. Then you got the defensive stopper avery bradley coming back. How did they not improve? i love the optimism but you gotta be realistic here. Chicago has an amazing coach in Tom Thibadeau but i sorta agree that without rose they'll struggle. But once rose is back they'll surge into the top 5 easy. unless rose is not the same player anymore, if thats the case i'll be really sad. I think we cant go higher than the 6th seed unless DeMar breaks out bigtime and goes like D Wade dropping 25, 5, 4, with 30% 3pt percentage or Bargnani becomes an all star.

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                      • #41
                        enlightenment wrote: View Post
                        REALLY? how do you suppose they stack up against Brooklyn, Philly, or Indiana?
                        Dude Brooklyn has no bench whatsoever. Philly lost iggy, Lou Williams(top scorer off the bench) and Elton Brand. They don't even have a decent backup pg, Pf or C. Indiana will finish above the C's tho i agree

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                        • #42
                          I think people are overrating Brooklyn. They're lineup is an OK fantasy team, but they are going to be horrible defensively.
                          Biggest Raptors fan from the Land Down Under

                          @alexhaggispinch

                          Toronto Raptors
                          Sydney Swans, Melbourne Storm
                          Dallas Cowboys, Dallas Stars, LA Angels of Anaheim

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                          • #43
                            alexaussie wrote: View Post
                            I think people are overrating Brooklyn. They're lineup is an OK fantasy team, but they are going to be horrible defensively.
                            I agree that they're a bit overrated, because I think Lopez is waaaaaay overrated, and beyond that a poor fit for that team. But I think Gerald Wallace is underrated, and a lot of folks are underestimating him because he's getting a little old. I expect a Shawn Marion from his Suns years type of performance from Wallace this year. I'd say they're about a 6 seed.

                            My pick for overrated and likely to miss the playoffs is the 76ers.

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                            • #44
                              tkfu wrote: View Post
                              I agree that they're a bit overrated, because I think Lopez is waaaaaay overrated, and beyond that a poor fit for that team. But I think Gerald Wallace is underrated, and a lot of folks are underestimating him because he's getting a little old. I expect a Shawn Marion from his Suns years type of performance from Wallace this year. I'd say they're about a 6 seed.

                              My pick for overrated and likely to miss the playoffs is the 76ers.
                              Agreed on the 6ers. I don't understand how anyone sees them as a "lock"

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