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Should the Raptors pull a "James Harden" with Derozan?

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  • #31
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It is a sacrifice when you realize max contracts are based on years experience. They could opt out and start a much larger contract earlier and also guarantee an extra $20M on their career earnings should the unthinkable happen. It also locks them in should they wish to leave OKC as a free agent. You might choose to put "sacrifice" in quotation marks but they did give up options, flexibility, and possibly money in a worst case situation. The lack of an ETO is also something all the top players have put in in recent years.
    From what I have read, Westbrook also left money on the table by giving up his additional rights through the Rose Rule. He could have asked for extra (not back-breaking, but still additional money) but instead sacraficed at least a little within the process.
    http://twitter.com/m_shantz

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    • #32
      The biggest difference between the two situations is that Harden's value is at an all-time high (NBA Finals, 6th man of the year award, Olympics), so the pressure was on Harden and his agent to get a deal done now less his value decreases.

      Derozan has to realize that he currently is below what everyone wants him to be (team wants more from him, he wants more from him and this forum clearly wants more from him) and will benefit from this season if he can improve the way, we have to assume he believes, he can.

      I haven't head any figures associated with Derozan, so I'm not sure it is really being considered at this point.
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • #33
        According to a source, Calderon was offered with Val for Harden. Imagine if we drafted Drummond, we could offer something like

        Calderon + Ed + Drummond for Harden + PJ3


        our lineup would be

        Lowry/Lucas
        Harden/Fields/Anderson
        Derozan/Kleiza/McGuire
        Bargs/PJ3/ACY
        Val/Amir/Gray

        Man, im starting to worry about Fields

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        • #34
          I firmly believe DD is gone either during or after this season if he doesn't show 'borderline All Star' SG ability by Christmas. IMO, he's got enough on the O side right now to say I'd like to see what he's asking at the end of the year, but only if he improves dramatically on the D side.

          If he becomes a passable defender at the 2, and continues to improve as a slasher/athletic 2, then I would be OK with a 3yr/$20-24M deal.

          If he continues to suck on D, drop that offer to 3yr/15M, because he's only a bench scorer and nothing more.

          But yes, make the decision by mid-season, and be prepared to swallow the risk that he somehow turns into an All Star after he leaves. Ideally they'll want to get something for him, so I can't see Colangelo waiting the whole season and ignoring trade offers.

          My personal desire would be to see him traded, along with other assets like Ed Davis and Calderon. I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I just don't see either of them fitting under Casey in the long term, esp. if Terrence Ross develops as they seem to think he will (defensive acumen, much better perimeter shooter than DD, similar athleticism, arguably higher bball IQ).
          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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          • #35
            Shantz wrote: View Post
            From what I have read, Westbrook also left money on the table by giving up his additional rights through the Rose Rule. He could have asked for extra (not back-breaking, but still additional money) but instead sacraficed at least a little within the process.
            No, he didn't. His contract is the full maximum that he could be paid under the CBA, even including adding the extra extension year that each club can only use once, for one player. (Incidentally, that's why Houston can offer Harden a bigger max contract extension now than OKC could have--OKC used up their one 5-year max on Westbrook, but Houston hasn't used it yet.)

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            • #36
              tkfu wrote: View Post
              No, he didn't. His contract is the full maximum that he could be paid under the CBA, even including adding the extra extension year that each club can only use once, for one player. (Incidentally, that's why Houston can offer Harden a bigger max contract extension now than OKC could have--OKC used up their one 5-year max on Westbrook, but Houston hasn't used it yet.)
              Yep Westbrook left 0 dollars on the table.

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              • #37
                tenforthewin wrote: View Post
                According to a source, Calderon was offered with Val for Harden
                A Grantland article on what the author thought Presti might have been pondering about shouldn't count as a source


                here is the footnote to that article.

                All these teams [Utah - Kanter or Favors, GSW - Thompson, Washington - Beal] save the Hornets, had at least semi-serious internal or external discussions on Harden.
                Take that for what one will.
                Last edited by Craiger; Mon Oct 29th, 2012, 02:35 PM.

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                • #38
                  tkfu wrote: View Post
                  No, he didn't. His contract is the full maximum that he could be paid under the CBA, even including adding the extra extension year that each club can only use once, for one player. (Incidentally, that's why Houston can offer Harden a bigger max contract extension now than OKC could have--OKC used up their one 5-year max on Westbrook, but Houston hasn't used it yet.)
                  According to Daily Thunder:


                  John Hollinger‏@johnhollinger

                  Remind me which FAs took less in OKC? Durant, RW got max. Perk got overpaid. Collison huge signing bonus. Max for Ibaka speculative at best.



                  28 OctRoyce Young‏@dailythunder

                  @johnhollinger Westbrook took less by waiving the Rose Rule max. Could've made $15 million more.
                  http://twitter.com/m_shantz

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                  • #39
                    Shantz wrote: View Post
                    According to Daily Thunder:


                    John Hollinger‏@johnhollinger

                    Remind me which FAs took less in OKC? Durant, RW got max. Perk got overpaid. Collison huge signing bonus. Max for Ibaka speculative at best.



                    28 OctRoyce Young‏@dailythunder

                    @johnhollinger Westbrook took less by waiving the Rose Rule max. Could've made $15 million more.
                    Derek Rose Rule - requires a player to make 2 all-NBA teams, 2 all-star starts or 1 MVP

                    None applied to Westbook. (unless there was a Russell Westbrook exception to the Derek Rose rule he used with his Larry Bird rights.... good thing the Gilbert Arenas clause didn't apply)

                    I'm also pretty sure Ibaka didn't get a max deal, but don't quote me on that.

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                    • #40
                      tenforthewin wrote: View Post
                      According to a source, Calderon was offered with Val for Harden. Imagine if we drafted Drummond, we could offer something like

                      Calderon + Ed + Drummond for Harden + PJ3


                      our lineup would be

                      Lowry/Lucas
                      Harden/Fields/Anderson
                      Derozan/Kleiza/McGuire
                      Bargs/PJ3/ACY
                      Val/Amir/Gray

                      Man, im starting to worry about Fields
                      Do you have a link to this?

                      If you are referring to the Grantland article, that was not a source. That was the author talking out of his ass.

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                      • #41
                        Craiger wrote: View Post
                        Derek Rose Rule - requires a player to make 2 all-NBA teams, 2 all-star starts or 1 MVP

                        None applied to Westbook. (unless there was a Russell Westbrook exception to the Derek Rose rule he used with his Larry Bird rights.... good thing the Gilbert Arenas clause didn't apply)

                        I'm also pretty sure Ibaka didn't get a max deal, but don't quote me on that.
                        Ibaka signed for 4 years and $12M per.

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