Should the Raptors pull a "James Harden" with Derozan?

[Shantz]

It is a sacrifice when you realize max contracts are based on years experience. They could opt out and start a much larger contract earlier and also guarantee an extra $20M on their career earnings should the unthinkable happen. It also locks them in should they wish to leave OKC as a free agent. You might choose to put "sacrifice" in quotation marks but they did give up options, flexibility, and possibly money in a worst case situation. The lack of an ETO is also something all the top players have put in in recent years.

From what I have read, Westbrook also left money on the table by giving up his additional rights through the Rose Rule. He could have asked for extra (not back-breaking, but still additional money) but instead sacraficed at least a little within the process.

[Axel]

The biggest difference between the two situations is that Harden's value is at an all-time high (NBA Finals, 6th man of the year award, Olympics), so the pressure was on Harden and his agent to get a deal done now less his value decreases.

Derozan has to realize that he currently is below what everyone wants him to be (team wants more from him, he wants more from him and this forum clearly wants more from him) and will benefit from this season if he can improve the way, we have to assume he believes, he can.

I haven't head any figures associated with Derozan, so I'm not sure it is really being considered at this point.

[tenforthewin]

According to a source, Calderon was offered with Val for Harden. Imagine if we drafted Drummond, we could offer something like

Calderon + Ed + Drummond for Harden + PJ3


our lineup would be

Lowry/Lucas
Harden/Fields/Anderson
Derozan/Kleiza/McGuire
Bargs/PJ3/ACY
Val/Amir/Gray

Man, im starting to worry about Fields

[jimmie]

I firmly believe DD is gone either during or after this season if he doesn't show 'borderline All Star' SG ability by Christmas. IMO, he's got enough on the O side right now to say I'd like to see what he's asking at the end of the year, but only if he improves dramatically on the D side.

If he becomes a passable defender at the 2, and continues to improve as a slasher/athletic 2, then I would be OK with a 3yr/$20-24M deal.

If he continues to suck on D, drop that offer to 3yr/15M, because he's only a bench scorer and nothing more.

But yes, make the decision by mid-season, and be prepared to swallow the risk that he somehow turns into an All Star after he leaves. Ideally they'll want to get something for him, so I can't see Colangelo waiting the whole season and ignoring trade offers.

My personal desire would be to see him traded, along with other assets like Ed Davis and Calderon. I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I just don't see either of them fitting under Casey in the long term, esp. if Terrence Ross develops as they seem to think he will (defensive acumen, much better perimeter shooter than DD, similar athleticism, arguably higher bball IQ).

[tkfu]

From what I have read, Westbrook also left money on the table by giving up his additional rights through the Rose Rule. He could have asked for extra (not back-breaking, but still additional money) but instead sacraficed at least a little within the process.

No, he didn't. His contract is the full maximum that he could be paid under the CBA, even including adding the extra extension year that each club can only use once, for one player. (Incidentally, that's why Houston can offer Harden a bigger max contract extension now than OKC could have--OKC used up their one 5-year max on Westbrook, but Houston hasn't used it yet.)

[Craiger]

No, he didn't. His contract is the full maximum that he could be paid under the CBA, even including adding the extra extension year that each club can only use once, for one player. (Incidentally, that's why Houston can offer Harden a bigger max contract extension now than OKC could have--OKC used up their one 5-year max on Westbrook, but Houston hasn't used it yet.)

Yep Westbrook left 0 dollars on the table.

[Craiger]

According to a source, Calderon was offered with Val for Harden

A Grantland article on what the author thought Presti might have been pondering about shouldn't count as a source


here is the footnote to that article.

All these teams [Utah - Kanter or Favors, GSW - Thompson, Washington - Beal] save the Hornets, had at least semi-serious internal or external discussions on Harden.

Take that for what one will.

[Shantz]

No, he didn't. His contract is the full maximum that he could be paid under the CBA, even including adding the extra extension year that each club can only use once, for one player. (Incidentally, that's why Houston can offer Harden a bigger max contract extension now than OKC could have--OKC used up their one 5-year max on Westbrook, but Houston hasn't used it yet.)

According to Daily Thunder:


John Hollinger@johnhollinger

Remind me which FAs took less in OKC? Durant, RW got max. Perk got overpaid. Collison huge signing bonus. Max for Ibaka speculative at best.



28 OctRoyce Young@dailythunder

@johnhollinger Westbrook took less by waiving the Rose Rule max. Could've made $15 million more.

[Craiger]

According to Daily Thunder:


John Hollinger@johnhollinger

Remind me which FAs took less in OKC? Durant, RW got max. Perk got overpaid. Collison huge signing bonus. Max for Ibaka speculative at best.



28 OctRoyce Young@dailythunder

@johnhollinger Westbrook took less by waiving the Rose Rule max. Could've made $15 million more.

Derek Rose Rule - requires a player to make 2 all-NBA teams, 2 all-star starts or 1 MVP

None applied to Westbook. (unless there was a Russell Westbrook exception to the Derek Rose rule he used with his Larry Bird rights.... good thing the Gilbert Arenas clause didn't apply)

I'm also pretty sure Ibaka didn't get a max deal, but don't quote me on that.

[mcHAPPY]

According to a source, Calderon was offered with Val for Harden. Imagine if we drafted Drummond, we could offer something like

Calderon + Ed + Drummond for Harden + PJ3


our lineup would be

Lowry/Lucas
Harden/Fields/Anderson
Derozan/Kleiza/McGuire
Bargs/PJ3/ACY
Val/Amir/Gray

Man, im starting to worry about Fields

Do you have a link to this?

If you are referring to the Grantland article, that was not a source. That was the author talking out of his ass.

[mcHAPPY]

Derek Rose Rule - requires a player to make 2 all-NBA teams, 2 all-star starts or 1 MVP

None applied to Westbook. (unless there was a Russell Westbrook exception to the Derek Rose rule he used with his Larry Bird rights.... good thing the Gilbert Arenas clause didn't apply)

I'm also pretty sure Ibaka didn't get a max deal, but don't quote me on that.

Ibaka signed for 4 years and $12M per.