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Final possession. Call was fishy.

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  • #16
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Here's my problem with blaming the refs, it takes ownership of the loss away from those who deserve it most (i.e. the Raptors). Why are we shooting long 2's in the final 5 minutes of a game? Why are we not doubling West after he scored 4 straight buckets?

    If we made smart decisions, the game was ours. I'm not looking at the refs to help us overcome our own mistakes. We deserved to lose last night, and unless we improve our "crunch time IQ", there will be far more L's than W's. Like Matt said, control what you can control, and don't worry about the rest.

    Expecting refs to make great calls for a full 48 minutes is asking too much....especially since it has yet to happen in NBA history.
    I fully agree, I'm not saying the Raps are full victims here, they are definitely a bigger part of the blame for the loss, but what im getting at is referee involvement cannot be dismissed. they are partially to blame as well. It is their job to watch plays and make calls. They see whats going on, if they decide not to blow that whistle, its a choice theyre making. you cant control a long 2, every player in the world who takes that long 2 assumes that shot is going to go in, everytime. otherwise, why shoot ever then? you cant think of percentages when you have that shot set. the double team, yes, that is valid. or they shouldve put JV on west. but the thing is, doesnt matter if its west, hill or george, somebody will still score. if those 14 points were spread among 4 different players, would we be pointing it out? probably not.

    of course nobody expects refs to make 100% of calls, but fairly obvious ones specially down the stretch, should be made.

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    • #17
      TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
      Even Yahoo noticed the BS non-calls on Demar
      DeRozan looked like he expected that all he had to do was stroll into the lane and he'd get a call. I saw maybe one play where it should have been a call, but the rest of his "drives" were so soft that he didn't deserve a call. He needs to do what truly great, athletic wing players do... take it hard, take it high and attempt to posterize the defenders! Don't go soft and throw up a circus shot while attempting to avoid/minimize contact... that just gives the refs a reason to make it a 50/50 call. If he goes up and tries to posterize them, he won't give the refs a choice but to blow the whistle!

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      • #18
        TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
        I fully agree, I'm not saying the Raps are full victims here, they are definitely a bigger part of the blame for the loss, but what im getting at is referee involvement cannot be dismissed. they are partially to blame as well. It is their job to watch plays and make calls. They see whats going on, if they decide not to blow that whistle, its a choice theyre making. you cant control a long 2, every player in the world who takes that long 2 assumes that shot is going to go in, everytime. otherwise, why shoot ever then? you cant think of percentages when you have that shot set. the double team, yes, that is valid. or they shouldve put JV on west. but the thing is, doesnt matter if its west, hill or george, somebody will still score. if those 14 points were spread among 4 different players, would we be pointing it out? probably not.

        of course nobody expects refs to make 100% of calls, but fairly obvious ones specially down the stretch, should be made.
        You're absolutely correct. Why shoot the long 2 (also known as the LEAST efficient shot in basketball)? Anyone who takes such a shot, at any moment, should be shot.

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        • #19
          TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
          I fully agree, I'm not saying the Raps are full victims here, they are definitely a bigger part of the blame for the loss, but what im getting at is referee involvement cannot be dismissed. they are partially to blame as well. It is their job to watch plays and make calls. They see whats going on, if they decide not to blow that whistle, its a choice theyre making. you cant control a long 2, every player in the world who takes that long 2 assumes that shot is going to go in, everytime. otherwise, why shoot ever then? you cant think of percentages when you have that shot set. the double team, yes, that is valid. or they shouldve put JV on west. but the thing is, doesnt matter if its west, hill or george, somebody will still score. if those 14 points were spread among 4 different players, would we be pointing it out? probably not.

          of course nobody expects refs to make 100% of calls, but fairly obvious ones specially down the stretch, should be made.
          you ask a Pacer's fan about the exact same play that you ask a Raptors fan about and you'll likely get a completely different answer.

          I personally thought the out of bounds play was not conclusive - at best a jump ball. Bargnani embelished on a 'no call' West bucket. If I was a Pacers fan that was easily the refs fault if it goes the other way.

          Bargnani travelled on his first FT attempts. Mahimi got called on a solid defensive play when Lowry was on an out of control drive. Lowry got FTs while jumping into his opponent on a pump fake (something the league was supposedly trying to eliminate). If I'm a Pacers fan thats 3 missed calls that lead to 6 free pts on the FT line.

          This is why blaming the ref is difficult game to play and leaves the Raps potentially down 6 instead of tied at the end of the game.

          I personally don't think there was a single play that entire game that was a blatant unquestionable miss by the refs. I don't think there was anything one sided about the calls all night.

          The refs made a couple calls that weren't favourable to Toronto, but if a team needs favourable calls to win a game, they didn't deserve the win anyways.

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          • #20
            Final possession wasn't what bugged me it was that the didn't get Dre a touch for the 5 before that. Raptors offense staled and they couldn't get a stop. I realize Jose hit some 3's but we gave just as much on the other end of the floor and then some when he was on the floor. I don't mind the 2 PG system for a few minutes but they basically ran 2 PG --for the whole 4th quarter. They should have played a better defensive line up down the stretch when they had leads of 8 and 6 for several minutes IMO.

            On a side note Fields and Anderson combining for 0 points in 40+ minutes is horrendous. Anderson had a few steals and assists but 0 points for a combined 0-9 and we lose by 2 is tough pill to swallow.

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            • #21
              Refs were not our problem last night. At all. That replayed call - even as a homer was a 50/50 call .. could have gone either way. Same with the West / AB push off. What you have to take into account is that AB was getting schooled by West the last 5 or 6 possessions. As a result, when you see AB fall, as a ref, you are likely thinking hes trying to bail himself out cause he cant stop this guy (which was the case at the time) ... as a result, West gets the benefit of the doubt.

              To be clear our issues last night were
              - Crunch time execution
              - Having 5 bench players on in the fourth who cant score and letting our 10+ point lead evaporate before finally getting at least Lowry back in
              - AB's inability to stop West / our coaches inability to switch someone else, double team or do something else
              -......



              - a couple of close calls (distant from the above in terms of importance)

              Comment


              • #22
                RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                Final possession wasn't what bugged me it was that the didn't get Dre a touch for the 5 before that. Raptors offense staled and they couldn't get a stop. I realize Jose hit some 3's but we gave just as much on the other end of the floor and then some when he was on the floor. I don't mind the 2 PG system for a few minutes but they basically ran 2 PG --for the whole 4th quarter. They should have played a better defensive line up down the stretch when they had leads of 8 and 6 for several minutes IMO.

                On a side note Fields and Anderson combining for 0 points in 40+ minutes is horrendous. Anderson had a few steals and assists but 0 points for a combined 0-9 and we lose by 2 is tough pill to swallow.
                If you include Ross and Lucas, then our wings (excluding DeRozan) were 0-12. DeRozan was just 5-14. That's 5-26 for our wings combined. Our wings shot a combined 19.2% on 26 shots!

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                • #23
                  mountio wrote: View Post
                  Refs were not our problem last night. At all. That replayed call - even as a homer was a 50/50 call .. could have gone either way. Same with the West / AB push off. What you have to take into account is that AB was getting schooled by West the last 5 or 6 possessions. As a result, when you see AB fall, as a ref, you are likely thinking hes trying to bail himself out cause he cant stop this guy (which was the case at the time) ... as a result, West gets the benefit of the doubt.

                  To be clear our issues last night were
                  - Crunch time execution
                  - Having 5 bench players on in the fourth who cant score and letting our 10+ point lead evaporate before finally getting at least Lowry back in- AB's inability to stop West / our coaches inability to switch someone else, double team or do something else
                  -......



                  - a couple of close calls (distant from the above in terms of importance)
                  I agree completely. Aside from Calderon (and this isn't usually the case), we have no go-to scorers on our 2nd unit. I couldn't figure out why Casey left them on for so long in the 4th quarter, just letting the lead evaporate. Bad coaching, bad shooting (way too many selfish possessions and settling for long jumpers in the last 5 mins) and soft drives (I'm looking at you $40 man!) cost us that game, not the refs.

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                  • #24
                    Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    You're absolutely correct. Why shoot the long 2 (also known as the LEAST efficient shot in basketball)? Anyone who takes such a shot, at any moment, should be shot.
                    Hahahaha I agree!!! Shoot the shooter!!

                    I guess what im trying to imply is a shot is a shot, you cant really run a whole list of analysis through your head when your feet are already set and your brain is telling you to take that shot. Even the best of 'em takes long twos, be it early or deep in the game.

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                    • #25
                      TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                      Hahahaha I agree!!! Shoot the shooter!!

                      I guess what im trying to imply is a shot is a shot, you cant really run a whole list of analysis through your head when your feet are already set and your brain is telling you to take that shot. Even the best of 'em takes long twos, be it early or deep in the game.
                      IMO, it's a lack of discipline. In the same way non-3-point shooters can resist shooting the 3 (even if wide open), everyone should be able to resist wasting possessions by jacking up long 2s.

                      The NBA should paint a 4-foot thick line inside the 3-point line, paint it red, and say, "any basket scored from here is worth zero". That's the only way these idiots will learn....
                      Last edited by Nilanka; Thu Nov 1st, 2012, 12:23 PM.

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                      • #26
                        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        ...Aside from Calderon (and this isn't usually the case), we have no go-to scorers on our 2nd unit....
                        Last year Lucas shot .393 from 3pt land. And .875 for FT's.
                        Anderson shot .393 from 3pt land and .85 for FT's.

                        Yes Casey may have left them in for too long, but both have shown the ability to score in the past. If they miss three baskets, that doesn't mean they aren't going to hit the next two, while playing within the rhythm of the game. I didn't think either guy was forcing their shots. In fact, just before Lucas came in I remember thinking "They need Lucas in here since nobody else is hitting their shots."

                        Coach can only do what he can do, but if DeMar, Fields and Ross aren't hitting, who you going to put in?

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                        • #27
                          Puffer wrote: View Post
                          Last year Lucas shot .393 from 3pt land. And .875 for FT's.
                          Anderson shot .393 from 3pt land and .85 for FT's.

                          Yes Casey may have left them in for too long, but both have shown the ability to score in the past. If they miss three baskets, that doesn't mean they aren't going to hit the next two, while playing within the rhythm of the game. I didn't think either guy was forcing their shots. In fact, just before Lucas came in I remember thinking "They need Lucas in here since nobody else is hitting their shots."

                          Coach can only do what he can do, but if DeMar, Fields and Ross aren't hitting, who you going to put in?
                          I was only commenting on their performance last night. It was clear that Calderon/Anderson/Amir/Davis and either Ross or Lucas, had zero chemistry in that 4th quarter and the offense was at a complete standstill, allowing Indi to climb back into the game. If it was clear to us watching, then I expect it should have been just as clear to Casey and his coaching staff. They could have even staggered bringing Lowry, DeRozan and Bargnani back so they could get their rest, while still ensuring a top scoring threat was on the court. I viewed that as poor adapting to the game conditions (not putting in a defensive sub for Bargnani in the 4th when it was clear the flu had entirely zapped his energy was another example) by Casey, which was always one of my biggest complaints about Triano. I think that poor coaching in the 4th and poor offensive execution (ie: too many long 2's and drives with weak finishing) down the stretch is what cost the Raps the game. I really think we gave it away.
                          Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Nov 1st, 2012, 01:49 PM.

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                          • #28
                            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                            I was only commenting on their performance last night. It was clear that Calderon/Anderson/Amir/Davis and either Ross or Lucas, had zero chemistry in that 4th quarter and the offense was at a complete standstill, allowing Indi to climb back into the game. If it was clear to us watching, then I expect it should have been just as clear to Casey and his coaching staff. They could have even staggered bringing Lowry, DeRozan and Bargnani back so they could get their rest, while still ensuring a top scoring threat was on the court. I viewed that as poor adapting to the game conditions (not putting in a defensive sub for Bargnani in the 4th when it was clear the flu had entirely zapped his energy was another example) by Casey, which was always one of my biggest complaints about Triano. I think that poor coaching in the 4th and poor offensive execution (ie: too many long 2's and drives with weak finishing) down the stretch is what cost the Raps the game. I really think we gave it away.
                            I wasnt suprised they went with Bargs at the end, but i think Lowry couldve gotten a better shot than the one Bargs threw up.

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                            • #29
                              I was watching the first half of the Blazers-Lakers game the Trail Blazers commentator was not very fond of Leon Wood. He said something like the following:

                              "Leon Wood from his usual half court position calls a pushing call on that the two referees close to the action did not see. Typical call for Leon but it's rather unusual we hear his whistle before the start of the 2nd quarter. Go back to sleep Leon".

                              I did not think it was an attempt at humor as the commentator picked on him throughout the first half. He never referred to another referee by name.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                If you include Ross and Lucas, then our wings (excluding DeRozan) were 0-12. DeRozan was just 5-14. That's 5-26 for our wings combined. Our wings shot a combined 19.2% on 26 shots!
                                Adding those guys in doesn't make it any better for sure lol. Wings haven been the issue for years and nights like last looking like the hole is still there.

                                Friday fingers crossed for some buckets from Fields, Anderson and Ross.

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