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Grange on Raptors: Raps embrace Lowry, forget Nash (SportsNet.ca)

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  • #16
    Axel wrote: View Post
    Perhaps his comment was that there wasn't an offer he was willing to do. A firm #8 pick in a deep draft immediately is more valuable than a vague future pick.
    That may be the case. I just remember alot of discussion about how Toronto should have been trying to move the pick and using a quote from Colangelo about how nothing was available.

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    • #17
      Pic

      He just needs a Partner in Crime (PIC) to play along with and the team becomes a threat a serious threat.

      JUST one more solid part to add



      PEACE
      It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.


      Muhammad Ali

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      • #18
        Lowry is the player the raps have NEVER had, including Vince, mighty mouse and Bosh. His "all i care about is winning" attitude that matches his talent is all ive ever wanted in a player and after 3 games he's my favorite all-time rap.
        @sweatpantsjer

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        • #19
          Zewo wrote: View Post
          The pick they traded away is actually guaranteed lottery, unless they make the playoffs (or completely bottom out) five years in a row.

          Top 3 protected this years draft, top 2 protected the next two years, and top 1 protected the next two years after that.

          But yeah, trading away a possible mid-teen pick (if the Raps barely miss the playoffs, 9th place) for Lowry? Good trade.
          I think the other reason sleepz was arguing that trading away last year's #8 pick would have been better than the highly protected pick they did trade, was due to the uncertainty involved. Not only will the Raptors wind up losing a 1st round pick of somesort between 2013-2018, but the conditions attached to the pick also prevent BC from including future 1st round pick(s) in any potential trade.

          Had the 2012 #8 pick been traded instead, BC would be able to trade the team's 2014 & 2016 1st round picks. Given what a combination of the team's most likely trade assets (ie: Davis, Calderon's expiring contract, Kleiza) and multiple draft picks (2 x 1st round picks & 4 x 2nd round picks) could possibly bring back in trade, it's a fair argument. I think the argument becomes even more significant with the extension handed out to DeRozan, now that Ross has been relegated to long-term backup.

          For me, it's not only the unwillingness to trade the 2012 #8 pick for Lowry that irks me, given the DeRozan extension. There were rumors in the aftermath of the Howard trade that said the Raps might have been able to acquire Iguodala from Philly, had they been willing to include the 2012 #8 pick (along with Calderon and Davis). It would have been conceivable for the conditions on the pick included in the Lowry trade to begin in 2014 (instead of 2013), which would have theoretically allowed the Raps to acquire both Lowry AND Iguodala, essentially for Ross & Davis & Calderon & a conditional 1st round pick. How good would that lineup have looked?

          Starters: Valanciunas, Bargnani, Iguodala, DeRozan, Lowry
          Primary Backups: Gray, Amir, Kleiza, Anderson, Fields, Lucas
          Bench: Acy, McGuire

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          • #20
            Zewo wrote: View Post
            The pick they traded away is actually guaranteed lottery, unless they make the playoffs (or completely bottom out) five years in a row.

            Top 3 protected this years draft, top 2 protected the next two years, and top 1 protected the next two years after that.

            But yeah, trading away a possible mid-teen pick (if the Raps barely miss the playoffs, 9th place) for Lowry? Good trade.
            I'm fully aware of the Protections placed on the Pick; and as you say yourself, it is in fact NOT guaranteed Lottery if we Win for the next few years. So the point of this post, in which you are trying to tell me it IS guaranteed, sort of escapes me ... but anyway ... a #8 Pick IS Guaranteed Lottery no matter how you look at it. The protected pick was NOT.

            BC made the right move in dealing the Future Pick instead of the 2012 #8 pick.

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            • #21
              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
              I think the argument becomes even more significant with the extension handed out to DeRozan, now that Ross has been relegated to long-term backup.
              As has been pointed out, its a bit ridiculous to think that Demars Extension was already lined up and ready to go, at that point in time.

              And secondly, why is Ross "relegated to long-term backup"?
              I'm pretty sure Colangelo said ON DRAFT NIGHT he could see Ross playing the 2 or 3 beside Derozan.
              I believe his words were (summarizing, this is not an exact quote) "Wing players are Wing players. Traditional positions are slowly going out the window. Now its more a combination of Guards, Wings and Forwards, as opposed to PG, SG, SF, PF, C."

              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
              For me, it's not only the unwillingness to trade the 2012 #8 pick for Lowry that irks me, given the DeRozan extension. There were rumors in the aftermath of the Howard trade that said the Raps might have been able to acquire Iguodala from Philly, had they been willing to include the 2012 #8 pick (along with Calderon and Davis). It would have been conceivable for the conditions on the pick included in the Lowry trade to begin in 2014 (instead of 2013), which would have theoretically allowed the Raps to acquire both Lowry AND Iguodala, essentially for Ross & Davis & Calderon & a conditional 1st round pick. How good would that lineup have looked?
              While this is all well and good, I don't base my opinioin on 'Rumors'.
              Especially considering not ONE rumour "leaked" from BC has actually been accurate since he's been here. That I can think of anyway.
              Last edited by Joey; Tue Nov 6th, 2012, 12:31 PM.

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              • #22
                ebrian wrote: View Post
                It's still early but I have to admit he has been satisfactory so far.
                you sir, have a gift for understatement.
                The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

                Comment


                • #23
                  CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                  I think the other reason sleepz was arguing that trading away last year's #8 pick would have been better than the highly protected pick they did trade, was due to the uncertainty involved. Not only will the Raptors wind up losing a 1st round pick of somesort between 2013-2018, but the conditions attached to the pick also prevent BC from including future 1st round pick(s) in any potential trade.

                  Had the 2012 #8 pick been traded instead, BC would be able to trade the team's 2014 & 2016 1st round picks. Given what a combination of the team's most likely trade assets (ie: Davis, Calderon's expiring contract, Kleiza) and multiple draft picks (2 x 1st round picks & 4 x 2nd round picks) could possibly bring back in trade, it's a fair argument. I think the argument becomes even more significant with the extension handed out to DeRozan, now that Ross has been relegated to long-term backup.

                  For me, it's not only the unwillingness to trade the 2012 #8 pick for Lowry that irks me, given the DeRozan extension. There were rumors in the aftermath of the Howard trade that said the Raps might have been able to acquire Iguodala from Philly, had they been willing to include the 2012 #8 pick (along with Calderon and Davis). It would have been conceivable for the conditions on the pick included in the Lowry trade to begin in 2014 (instead of 2013), which would have theoretically allowed the Raps to acquire both Lowry AND Iguodala, essentially for Ross & Davis & Calderon & a conditional 1st round pick. How good would that lineup have looked?

                  Starters: Valanciunas, Bargnani, Iguodala, DeRozan, Lowry
                  Primary Backups: Gray, Amir, Kleiza, Anderson, Fields, Lucas
                  Bench: Acy, McGuire
                  My understanding of the "can't trade two consecutive 1st round picks rule" is that once the draft is over, that rule is reset. That is the understanding I got from one of Larry Coon's chats that he had a long time ago.

                  So if the Raptors traded the #8 pick for Lowry, then once the draft ended, the Raptors could make the 2013 first pick available to any team that wanted it.

                  So ultimately if Lowry was available for #8, then I think it would have been a better move to give Houston the Ross pick so that the 2013 pick (or 2014, 2015, 2016, etc) picks would all be available for a trade now to say Memphis for Gay or Atlanta for Smith, etc.
                  Last edited by planetmars; Tue Nov 6th, 2012, 12:36 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Vykis wrote: View Post
                    Lowry is probably the most suitable pg for Caseys system: tough as nails, great defensively, a leader, competitor, always hustles, he's a dude perfect for the culture change in Toronto. Nash is a great offensive player, but really he's just Jose 2.0 and old.
                    although i may agree with the lowry part the rest is just way off...how can a 2 time MVP be Jose 2.0.....never in Jose's wildest dreams could he even be Nash 2.0 lets get that straight.. it is true were much better off with Lowry though. he's a game changer for sure.

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                    • #25
                      Even though Lowry was considered pretty good, I thought(when the trade was made) that Raps. were giving up a little too much. It's been only 3 games but he has surprised me. Even if his points average comes down, as is expected, the other things he does so consistently are amazing and make the deal look really good for Toronto.
                      Attitude Is A Choice.

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                      • #26
                        Craiger wrote: View Post
                        That may be the case. I just remember alot of discussion about how Toronto should have been trying to move the pick and using a quote from Colangelo about how nothing was available.
                        From my recollection of that time (June), the comments from BC were there were deals available but the asking price was too high. There were rumours about Gay and AI. My understanding was things were available but it either meant taking back bad contracts or moving too many assets.

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                        • #27
                          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                          As has been pointed out, its a bit ridiculous to think that Demars Extension was already lined up and ready to go, at that point in time.

                          And secondly, why is Ross "relegated to long-term backup"?
                          I'm pretty sure Colangelo said ON DRAFT NIGHT he could see Ross playing the 2 or 3 beside Derozan.
                          I believe his words were (summarizing, this is not an exact quote) "Wing players are Wing players. Traditional positions are slowly going out the window. Now its more a combination of Guards, Wings and Forwards, as opposed to PG, SG, SF, PF, C."



                          While this is all well and good, I don't base my opinioin on 'Rumors'.
                          Especially considering not ONE rumour "leaked" from BC has actually been accurate since he's been here. That I can think of anyway.
                          Well said! I'd love to see someone do a study on what percentage of internet NBA "rumours" actually have any legs to them. These internet bloggers & media types that throw this stuff out have nothing to lose. They get the hits they're looking for, and if you throw enough shyt up against the wall, sooner or later some bit of it is going to stick, making them legit rumour mongers in the eyes of some.

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                          • #28
                            enlightenment wrote: View Post
                            you sir, have a gift for understatement.
                            He's aight.
                            your pal,
                            ebrian

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                            • #29
                              Seeing how Nash has been playing on a much better talent team on Los Angeles, I'm glad Lowry is our guy. He is so damn good. I've never said something like that since Bosh...
                              Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                              • #30
                                joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                                Fox Mulder being the King of THAT game, obviously.
                                The truth is out there....

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