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Has Bargnani Plateaued?

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  • #31
    Trade bargnani or fire BC one or the other

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    • #32
      NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
      Trade bargnani or fire BC one or the other
      Trade Derozan. We'd get more for him and he's worse offensively.
      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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      • #33
        KeonClark wrote: View Post
        Trade Derozan. We'd get more for him and he's worse offensively.
        At least he plays slightly better defense and actually does things other than score. Bargnani can't rebound, defend and he's very unefficient on offense. I used to like bargnani but now I want him gone. Derozan is 23 and he has at least some room to grow. Bargnani hasn't improved in 4 years and he's 27. Plus bargnani's shitty defence hurts us more cause he has to guard the paint

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        • #34
          7 people voted "no"??? Who are these crazies??? Time to wake up from their psychedelic-induced trance.

          Anyone who disagrees with the statement, "Bargnani will never be better than what he currently is", is either new to the Raptors, or such a diehard Bargnani fan that admitting what is blatantly obvious to all, would be crushing his/her soul.

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          • #35
            Soft Euro wrote: View Post
            For one, if he has plateaued, that would mean that he would play at a relatively stable level (right?). And this year, so far, he has regressed.
            In math, it means relatively stable. In sports when a player has plateaued usually that is referring to a player who has reached his peak and won't get any better.

            Soft Euro wrote: View Post
            Bargnani clearly is having a difficult time. It's pretty obvious to me that he needs the right environment to thrive, this goes for the system he plays in as much as for the social (mental?) environment. This clearly isn't right. And if it isn't right Bargnani doens't have the mental skills to play through it like some topplayers or hustle players. He lacks that ability and it's hard to blame him for it. Not all people are mentally strong (most are not) and you can't just decide to be mentally strong just like DeRozan can't simply decide to be a good threepointshooter. We see how difficult it is to become a good threepointshooter, yet this is far more easy to improve on a 'simple' physical skill than changing your mental make-up.
            There are some areas here that I do agree with. I would rename this thread "Has Bargnani Plateaued as a Toronto Raptor" and that would be a resounding yes. If Dwane Casey is here to stay, which all signs point to being yes, then Bargnani should be on his way out. He's not going to get any better in this system.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • #36
              Nilanka wrote: View Post
              7 people voted "no"??? Who are these crazies??? Time to wake up from their psychedelic-induced trance.

              Anyone who disagrees with the statement, "Bargnani will never be better than what he currently is", is either new to the Raptors, or such a diehard Bargnani fan that admitting what is blatantly obvious to all, would be crushing his/her soul.
              As I said, I am one of those. I think he can play at the average level of last year and right now he is playing below that level. So he regressed. As ebrian pointed out to me I might have interpreted 'plateaued' wrongly in which case I should vote yes. As I don't think he'll ever play better than last year's average for more than a few games.

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              • #37
                Soft Euro wrote: View Post
                As I said, I am one of those. I think he can play at the average level of last year and right now he is playing below that level. So he regressed. As ebrian pointed out to me I might have interpreted 'plateaued' wrongly in which case I should vote yes. As I don't think he'll ever play better than last year's average for more than a few games.
                Sometimes he plays well, other times he doesn't. Can he play better than he's currently playing? Absolutely....we saw it last year. Can he maintain that high level for any longer than a handful of games? We have 6 years of evidence to suggest otherwise.

                It's this on and off cycle that I refer to as "plateauing". I highly doubt that Bargnani has anything left up his sleeve that we haven't seen before.

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                • #38
                  Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  7 people voted "no"??? Who are these crazies??? Time to wake up from their psychedelic-induced trance.

                  Anyone who disagrees with the statement, "Bargnani will never be better than what he currently is", is either new to the Raptors, or such a diehard Bargnani fan that admitting what is blatantly obvious to all, would be crushing his/her soul.
                  I did not bother answering the poll because of this post.

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                  • #39
                    I'm with Soft Euro, being in the minority who think that Bargnani can (and will) play at the 'good' level he played at last season. 3/5 players in the starting lineup are new, they're playing a new offensive system and he was slowed by illness (those first couple games you could see he had no energy and zero lift on his shots), but he's turned it around the past couple games. I'm not sold yet, but I'd like to see a string of games where he's healthy and playing with a consistent lineup, before joining the 'trade Bargnani' team.

                    For me, as Nilanka points out, the biggest question is consistency. Assuming he does return to the good form he showed in the first 13 games last season, then I think he will have plateued, as far as skill is concerned. However, I think he can technically improve further, by improving his consistency and becoming more efficient with his scoring. I think his man defense is pretty good and he's even had a few decent rebounding games.

                    I think the problem is that he's got so much working against him
                    - he was a #1 overall pick (not his fault)
                    - his destiny is forever linked to BC's destiny (not his fault)
                    - he was asked to be the face of the franchise and the #1 guy after Bosh left (not his fault)
                    - he is one of the few holdovers to the last success the team had and the horrible years that followed (not his fault)
                    - he is a quiet, finesse player with a calm, cool personality, playing on a team in a city that prefers the emotional, gritty, lunchpail style players (ie: Raptors - Reggie, JYD, Leafs - Gilmour, Clark)

                    I don't think it's fair to hold him up to other #1 overall picks. However, I absolutely agree that he should be held accountable to give 100% effort 100% of the time, playing up to the standard that he established in those few games last season that he's capable of playing at. Given his skillset, age and decent contract, I just wouldn't give up on him just yet... though I maintain that this season will be the last I defend him, if he doesn't prove himself capable of playing to that standard.

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                    • #40
                      I think the sad truth to polls and threads like this is that there are people like me who had given up on Bargnani 3-4 years ago, and now in the 7th year of his career there's still some crazies out there who think there's more coming.

                      I wonder if there are employees within the organization who pleaded with Colangelo not to sign Bargnani again after his rookie contract. I sure hope so. Otherwise there is no hope for this franchise..
                      Last edited by ebrian; Mon Nov 12th, 2012, 01:50 PM.
                      your pal,
                      ebrian

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                      • #41
                        What's your stance on DeRozan? Because he might become to me like Bargnani is to you.

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                        • #42
                          Soft Euro wrote: View Post
                          What's your stance on DeRozan? Because he might become to me like Bargnani is to you.
                          Not sure who this post was directed to, but I'm very quickly running out of patience with DeRozan as well.

                          And to think, he'd still need another 3+ years to equal Bargnani's window of "development".

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                          • #43
                            If the breif stint of brilliance he showd last season was his apex, then what he's done thus far this season isn't so much a plateau as it is a decline. It's still really early in the season and his shot is already starting to round into form, but for me even if he could consistently give you 20+ points a game I would still rather see him moved for a traditional low post presence that can provide a good mix of scoring, rebounding and defence. For all the talk of how he creates mismatches it's never provided any true advantage for us on a consistent basis.

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                            • #44
                              If we are referring to positive plateau meaning he's reached the pinnacle/best part of his career, I dont think he has plateaued and frankly, i dont think he ever will.
                              If we are talking about negative plateau meaning this is the best he can be so lets live with it, then a resounding, YES.

                              I do agree with Soft Euro's post, this is on the organization as much as it is on Bargnani. Sometimes the effort isnt there, but IMO, it was the team's responsibility to guide him in the right direction. Forcing him to be a center really messed him up, and now theyre putting him in the role of a 4 and expecting him to just excel right away. wont happen.

                              He needs to go where the system fits his game, the Raptors need to stop making the system fit him.

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                              • #45
                                Soft Euro wrote: View Post
                                What's your stance on DeRozan? Because he might become to me like Bargnani is to you.
                                Even if it wasnt directed at me, ill answer it, hehehe.

                                If you see your supposed face of the franchise getting away with not putting in 100% effort on both ends of the floor, what would that make you want to do? Again, human nature. Demar has seen throughout how the organization baby-ed Bargnani, of course, why would he exert maximum effort if he can get away with medium? His rebounding seems to have improved this season i give him that, so next year he'll try to improve his asts? then next next year his hustle and stealing the ball? and then the year after that his 3pt shot? I dont know bout you guys but i think by now he should have close to a complete game, considering the opportunities that the Raptors have given him. Id say maybe, maybe, maybe one more year.

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