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Time to end the Bargnani experiment

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  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    If this song is not on Bryan Colangelo's iPod it should be. And when he is listening to it, I hope the first thought he has is of Andrea Bargnani.



    "Drop that mothafucka"

    Leave a comment:


  • enlightenment
    replied
    ugh... Bargnani on defense against the Celtics right now... pitiful...

    Leave a comment:


  • Th0m79
    replied
    I'm getting really frustrated watching this guy play too. It seems like he's got one move - stand behing the 3 point line, get the defender to run at him, and pump fake to try and get a foul. If I were BryCo, I'd let him know that he better do something or he's out the door. We've been patient buddy.

    Leave a comment:


  • charlz
    replied
    draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is not a starter. end of discussion.
    +1

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon_Wade
    replied
    I'm trying to think of a Granger, West trade for Toronto but having a hard time balancing it out. Bargnani, Calderon and Ross was the best I've been able to come up with. I've wanted Granger since Demar really starting getting into the post game because Granger is a good three point shooting and he would compliment the front court so they could have a Granger, Amir and JV starting line-up. Granger also seemed to really get under Lebrons skin in the playoff's last year.

    We would have a starting line-up of Lowry, Derozan, Granger, Amir and Jonas

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    Chisholm wrote pretty much the exact same article 17 months ago (Triano era) http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=362496

    Has anything changed since Chisholm wrote these words?

    The biggest failure this year was, and has been for a while, his inability to develop areas of his game that don't have to do with his scoring.
    What is basically being illustrated is that not only did Bargnani not improve his pathetic rebounding and defense, but in some areas he actually REGRESSED from already embarrassingly low standards.
    He's probably got more in common with J.R. Smith than Dirk Nowitzki at this point in his career...
    Perhaps if he were a lights-out shooter the team would feel compelled to work around his shortcomings, but the fact is he's one of the least efficient 20 ppg in the NBA this season...
    His insistence on going one-on-one has led to a dramatic increase in shots from the 16-23 foot range (the dreaded 'long two'), which is basically the laziest shot he could take. So not only does the team's offense need to basically stop to allow him his forays with the ball, but he 'rewards' the team by taking bad shots.
    Bargnani has become something of the poster child for a player refusing to work to the best of their abilities, so why should fans keep paying to sand him and his indifferent play continue to be the most visible part of every Raptors game?

    Leave a comment:


  • The Great One
    replied
    I've said this before, Raps should use Bargs as a 6th man and should be mainly used as a SPOT UP 3 POINT SHOOTER.

    Leave a comment:


  • BallaBalla
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Tim Chisholm takes the hammer and hits the nail on the head.

    I don't care how 'ugly' people think it is but I would take the grind it out style we saw last year and versus the Pacers any day of the week over what we have seen prior to last night this season.
    I think that this is exactly the point....so my question is why do you guys think that he continues to start? are we that bad offensively?

    Leave a comment:


  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    I don't mind grind it out games as long as we win. and when we're just beating on the other team its fun

    Leave a comment:


  • ceez
    replied
    Chisholm's been kind of annoying me lately but that article is spot fucking on

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Bargnani is a relic of a different time in Raptor-land, a time when offensive prowess was valued above all else, a time when the team was defined by a different cast of characters and a different guiding philosophy. For fans, he is a nightly reminder of what this team is supposed to be moving away from. The club wants to be seen as a gritty, defence-first outfit that wins with heart and hustle, and Bargnani is simply the antithesis to that style. He no longer belongs. Like so many Raptors before him, he has teased fans with what he could be and has refused to live up to that standard.
    Tim Chisholm takes the hammer and hits the nail on the head.

    I don't care how 'ugly' people think it is but I would take the grind it out style we saw last year and versus the Pacers any day of the week over what we have seen prior to last night this season.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    Didn't mean for the nonsense comment to come directed towards you. Your at least reasonable in your posts and don't just spit out ignorance and have valid reasoning behind them. That was directed at the majority of the anti-bargnani cult that is trolling out in full force after a bad game by him or a loss regardless of his play.

    I don't think 3 regular season contests is enough to see what his chemistry is like with Lowry. We've gone over this several times I understand Millsap is better would trade him for Dre in a heart beat but that offer is obviously not on the table so why keep bringing him up?

    If you read the post you would know that 41% was his shooting over the last 3 games. I was saying he's not playing as bad as he's being made out to as he was rebounding 7+, getting assists and some blocks/steals. All the intangibles everyone was complaining about were there even though he wasn't shooting well. If a scorer is shooting 44 which is his average over his career with out other options to spread the floor I'm fine with it.

    His inconsistency is frustrating no question and for the millionth time I'm perfectly fine with him being traded like anyone on the roster if it makes the team better. I just look at the glaring holes in the roster and the teams major weaknesses and it's definitely not at the 4 spot lets be serious.
    Sorry I missed that. Thanks for clarifying.

    Leave a comment:


  • special1
    replied
    Tim Chisholm - It's time for the Raptors to trade Bargnani - Article

    see the link - http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=409482

    Thirteen games.

    For most any recent Raptors fan, you can say "thirteen games" and they immediately know what you're talking about. It's been referred to incessantly for almost a year, as a reason for hope and optimism and as a justification for six long years of meager returns.

    However, it now looks like those thirteen games will serve as an indictment rather than an exoneration. Those thirteen games that should have pushed people out of their cynicism will now only sink people further into it. In typical Raptors fashion, those thirteen games that should have been the start of what is, instead represent yet another case of what could have been but isn't.

    That's why it's time to trade Andrea Bargnani.

    For thirteen games to start last season, Bargnani finally showed what he can be when he puts it all together. He reached the apex of his personal mountain, the pinnacle of his potential and showed the basketball world what had so enraptured Bryan Colangelo when he drafted Bargnani first overall in 2006. He was a terror on offence, he was committed on defence and he was a true on-court leader for the first time in his NBA career.

    He was also apparently incapable of sustaining that level of production.

    Bargnani was famously injured after thirteen games last season and played just 18 more the rest of the way, averaging 16.1 ppg on .403 shooting and just 5.1 rpg before being shut down for good with a bothersome calf injury being cited as the reason for Bargnani's downturn in production.

    Well, through eight games this season Bargnani is averaging 16.3 ppg on .357 shooting and just 4.6 rpg and he has no calf injury to blame as a reason for his lack of production. Opposing power forwards are averaging a blistering 20.5 PER against him according to 82games.com and the team is allowing a whopping 11.4 points per 100 possessions more when Bargnani is on the court.

    Instead of working over defences with his strong mid-range game, he's once again drifting out to the three-point line and staying there, averaging a career-high 4.5 attempts per game from behind the arc. He's currently sporting a career-low in rebound rate and true shooting percentage, with his PER is sitting at 12.7, his lowest since 2007-08.

    The difference now, versus all of the other times in Bargnani's career when he's looked underwhelming, is that he's shown people his best and now that's what he's being measured against. No longer are we talking about Bargnani's ephemeral potential, but instead we are talking about the actual production that he demonstrated and is now not living up to. Those thirteen games have gone from being Bargnani's breakthrough to his cross to bear. Bargnani was kept in Toronto for so long because he was supposed to still have higher to climb as a player, because he still had heights that he hadn't shown the world yet.

    Well, he's shown those heights now, and he doesn't look anywhere close to being able to replicate them on a consistent basis, which is why it's time for the Raptors to sever ties and move on.

    Bargnani is a relic of a different time in Raptor-land, a time when offensive prowess was valued above all else, a time when the team was defined by a different cast of characters and a different guiding philosophy. For fans, he is a nightly reminder of what this team is supposed to be moving away from. The club wants to be seen as a gritty, defence-first outfit that wins with heart and hustle, and Bargnani is simply the antithesis to that style. He no longer belongs. Like so many Raptors before him, he has teased fans with what he could be and has refused to live up to that standard.

    Perhaps more than anything, that is the reason the Raptors have to trade Bargnani. They can no longer shrug their shoulders at players that don't work to max-out their talent. That can no longer be a defining characteristic of the club. They cited DeMar DeRozan's work ethic as a big reason why they felt obligated to extend his contract. They cited Jonas Valanciunas' heart and hustle as big factors in not only drafting him fifth but being willing to wait a year for his arrival. They love the intensity of guys like Kyle Lowry and Amir Johnson. Those guys represent what the club says it wants to be about, which by extension has to mean that Andrea Bargnani does not.

    If this club is so eager to move into the next phase of their evolution, then they have to admit that those thirteen games didn't mean what they thought they did. They have to work to expunge from the roster the pieces that don't fit the personality that the team so desperately wants to adopt, and that that process has to start by - finally - moving Bargnani out of Toronto.

    Leave a comment:


  • RAPresenting
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I've seen every game minus Dallas.

    Bargnani did not know what to do with a PG like Lowry - granted it was just a few preseason games and 3 regular season games. I look at what Millsap does with Mo Williams.... could you imagine Lowry? Millsap offers you everything Bargnani does but he is tougher and plays balls out. That type of play sets the tone for the team.

    Where are you getting 41%? I am seeing 37% thus far this season. I do agree his shooting percentage will rise but he'll still be shooting low 40's (~42-44% imo).

    I see Bargnani as a weakness only because I"m tired of the inconsistency and one-dimensional play he brings to the table. This weakness is in addition to the SF, of coruse.
    Didn't mean for the nonsense comment to come directed towards you. Your at least reasonable in your posts and don't just spit out ignorance and have valid reasoning behind them. That was directed at the majority of the anti-bargnani cult that is trolling out in full force after a bad game by him or a loss regardless of his play.

    I don't think 3 regular season contests is enough to see what his chemistry is like with Lowry. We've gone over this several times I understand Millsap is better would trade him for Dre in a heart beat but that offer is obviously not on the table so why keep bringing him up?

    If you read the post you would know that 41% was his shooting over the last 3 games. I was saying he's not playing as bad as he's being made out to as he was rebounding 7+, getting assists and some blocks/steals. All the intangibles everyone was complaining about were there even though he wasn't shooting well. If a scorer is shooting 44 which is his average over his career with out other options to spread the floor I'm fine with it.

    His inconsistency is frustrating no question and for the millionth time I'm perfectly fine with him being traded like anyone on the roster if it makes the team better. I just look at the glaring holes in the roster and the teams major weaknesses and it's definitely not at the 4 spot lets be serious.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nilanka
    replied
    Special Request Post from "FAQ"

    He asked nicely so I thought I'd comply:

    FAQ says:
    Vince hinted he was open to returning to TO... as an elder statesman player/leader. He's earning $3 Mill with Dallas, so he would prolly come back if BC offered him say, $5 Mill.

    Now that Dirk is wearing down and getting injured, maybe Bargs could be traded to Dallas for Vince plus fillers.... ya think??!!!

    Leave a comment:

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