Take a deep breath

[Jclaw]

time for a "just breathe" check after that Pistons game. Hard to say what would feel worse. Losing three heartbreakers or losing three by double digits. These close ones seem brutal but I've got to think they are a sign of better things to come. Lowry's shot bounces off the rim, up and out. Bargnani gets a no call foul after Sessions drains the game winning shot that rattled around and in. Jefferson's three point shot. These may not be statistical oddities but they certainly aren't constants. If the same events play out over the course of time (ie a season) things should fall our way. It's just hard to think that if all these went the other way, we would be taking about the team with such hope but instead things seem quite bleak. The gap between those two views can not be explained by those random events. Just breathe

[stretch]

Is Jones playing at shooting forward? He's listed at PF. He did not play in the game against the Bulls on Wednesday and has appeared in only 4 games.

[ReubenJRD]

To all those who wanted a 3. Terrence Jones is doing a mighty nice job in Houston right now...

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Ross could still become a solid player, but wouldn't it have been nice to have drafted a lottery SF who we could be throwing minutes at this season? Not hiding behind derozan playing 7 a game. We should've lost just a few more last year

1 more loss (or even a won coin flip) would have landed Toronto Barnes instead of Ross. The bottom line is that this team needs more talent, regardless how it's acquired. Lowry (and eventually Valanciunas) are the only legit starters, IMO. Everybody else would be solid 2nd unit contributors to a contending playoff team.

[koncept]

Ross could still become a solid player, but wouldn't it have been nice to have drafted a lottery SF who we could be throwing minutes at this season? Not hiding behind derozan playing 7 a game. We should've lost just a few more last year

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I agree, JV is not the problem now -- what I'm saying is that the delayed improvement was expected. And I kind of see a domino-effect from that; the day the management made the choice of writing off an entire season and doing nothing to the roster for one full year.

We literally went into the 2011-2012 season having done close to nothing in the offseason, coming into the season with virtually the exact same roster as the year before (give or take a few end-of-bench players). We brought in a brand new coach to change the culture and mentality, but we failed to look at the big picture, because they were teaching a culture to a bunch of players who had no future as Raptors.

They taught guys to "pound the rock", but Barbosa, Bayless, James Johnson, Jamaal Magloire are no longer with us. A couple more -- Calderon and Bargnani have no future with this team.

So really the only guy who retains the experience and knowledge of Casey's system and culture is DeMar DeRozan. If you look at the future of this team (when JV reaches his potential in 2-3 years), our lineup will consist of Lowry, DeRozan and Valanciunas. Ed Davis and Terrence Ross -- maybe, if they survive the inevitable trades to come. Kleiza and Amir might still be around by virtue of bad contracts that no one will want to touch until they're expiring.

To sum it up, basically the roster is changing faster than the culture can change, and that's why you see a regression from last year to this year.

That's why I was pro tank-nation last year and looked (still look) at this year as a building (not worrying about playoffs) year. The team should have tanked while Valanciunas was overseas, to bring in the best draft pick possible to develop this year alongside Valanciunas. This year wouldn't have been about playing guys like Lucas/Anderson/McGuire, but rather about spoonfeeding playing time to the kids that you hope/expect will be part of the future core. Everybody not part of that core should have been used as assets last year, this past offseason and this season, all with the goal of building the best young core possible.

BC did a good job rebuilding. I just think he went from re-building into building a year too early (before Valanciunas joined the team), which has dominoed into the team moving from building to targeting playoffs a year too early as well. The last 2 years should have been managed differently, with next season being the year the Raptors made playoffs their target.

[ebrian]

The problem in Toronto this season is not JV. It is everyone else (as a whole including coaching) - they have regressed. The Raptors have young veterans who are not getting it done and a 2nd year coach who has not built on the progress of his 1st year.

I agree, JV is not the problem now -- what I'm saying is that the delayed improvement was expected. And I kind of see a domino-effect from that; the day the management made the choice of writing off an entire season and doing nothing to the roster for one full year.

We literally went into the 2011-2012 season having done close to nothing in the offseason, coming into the season with virtually the exact same roster as the year before (give or take a few end-of-bench players). We brought in a brand new coach to change the culture and mentality, but we failed to look at the big picture, because they were teaching a culture to a bunch of players who had no future as Raptors.

They taught guys to "pound the rock", but Barbosa, Bayless, James Johnson, Jamaal Magloire are no longer with us. A couple more -- Calderon and Bargnani have no future with this team.

So really the only guy who retains the experience and knowledge of Casey's system and culture is DeMar DeRozan. If you look at the future of this team (when JV reaches his potential in 2-3 years), our lineup will consist of Lowry, DeRozan and Valanciunas. Ed Davis and Terrence Ross -- maybe, if they survive the inevitable trades to come. Kleiza and Amir might still be around by virtue of bad contracts that no one will want to touch until they're expiring.

To sum it up, basically the roster is changing faster than the culture can change, and that's why you see a regression from last year to this year.

[Nilanka]

You guys have to realize what a unique talent this guy is...

Bargnani has such a special skill set for a guy his size. We just have to harness his potential, and with a little more time, and a few breaks our way, Andrea Bargnani can be the focal point of a Championship offense in the NBA.

Everyone here has to forget this negativity, and just have faith that Bryan Colangelo has a fantastic conception of this team's potential, and its direction. We are slowly, but surely, building towards greatness here. People are panicing way to early right now.

What guys, I mean, we're only like 12 games in here. Sure, things aren't going as well as expected. There have been injuries during the last two years, but we are trending in a very positive direction.

DeRozan, Bargnani, Kleiza, Fields, Amir Johnson... These are great blue collar, lunch pail type of players, who are just such a solid core to build around.

With Lowry, Valanciunas, Ed Davis, and T. Ross, we have budding HOF'ers who are going to push this roster into contention.

Just stay positive you guys... This is a very well managed team, with some great pieces at bargain contracts. Every team short of the Heat and the Lakers are jealous of the Raps you can bet that!!



Go RapS!

I want some of what you're smoking.

[mcHAPPY]

But isn't that what was expected? That was 75% of my argument against drafting JV. If you sided with drafting JV, then you were also willing to wait 2+ years (not to mention the risk involved) to catch up to the other bad teams of 2011. This is the point of NBA Drafts. You get a player because you sucked, and you develop him, and hope he helps you out in the long run. We didn't have a player to develop last year because our guy was in Europe not learning how to play in the NBA. Charlotte had two, and now they're a much, much better team. While they sucked last season, at least they were making progress. We sucked last year, and then we're going to suck again this year, and start making progress this year. While their two rookies learned how to play in the NBA and gained valuable experience, ours did nothing of the sort. Ours will start learning now, while theirs continue to grow into solid NBA players; learn what it takes to win; hit game winning shots, etc.

We can look back a few years from now and laugh at this debate if JV is dominating and we're a winning team, but if you're complaining about the slow progress of this team, that's just silly.

The problem in Toronto this season is not JV. It is everyone else (as a whole including coaching) - they have regressed. The Raptors have young veterans who are not getting it done and a 2nd year coach who has not built on the progress of his 1st year.

[ebrian]

just stay positive you guys... This is a very well managed team, with some great pieces at bargain contracts. Every team short of the heat and the lakers are jealous of the raps you can bet that!!

lol!

[ebrian]

that is also a kick in the nuts.

The bad teams are improving at a faster rate than Toronto. Dunlap deserves all kinds of credit for motivating that team. There is no doubt he has them overachieving. But at the same time he has definitely got the team buying in to the plan. Wait a second, that sounds familiar...... from last year.

But isn't that what was expected? That was 75% of my argument against drafting JV. If you sided with drafting JV, then you were also willing to wait 2+ years (not to mention the risk involved) to catch up to the other bad teams of 2011. This is the point of NBA Drafts. You get a player because you sucked, and you develop him, and hope he helps you out in the long run. We didn't have a player to develop last year because our guy was in Europe not learning how to play in the NBA. Charlotte had two, and now they're a much, much better team. While they sucked last season, at least they were making progress. We sucked last year, and then we're going to suck again this year, and start making progress this year. While their two rookies learned how to play in the NBA and gained valuable experience, ours did nothing of the sort. Ours will start learning now, while theirs continue to grow into solid NBA players; learn what it takes to win; hit game winning shots, etc.

We can look back a few years from now and laugh at this debate if JV is dominating and we're a winning team, but if you're complaining about the slow progress of this team, that's just silly.

[Miekenstien]

You guys have to realize what a unique talent this guy is...

Bargnani has such a special skill set for a guy his size. We just have to harness his potential, and with a little more time, and a few breaks our way, Andrea Bargnani can be the focal point of a Championship offense in the NBA.

Everyone here has to forget this negativity, and just have faith that Bryan Colangelo has a fantastic conception of this team's potential, and its direction. We are slowly, but surely, building towards greatness here. People are panicing way to early right now.

What guys, I mean, we're only like 12 games in here. Sure, things aren't going as well as expected. There have been injuries during the last two years, but we are trending in a very positive direction.

DeRozan, Bargnani, Kleiza, Fields, Amir Johnson... These are great blue collar, lunch pail type of players, who are just such a solid core to build around.

With Lowry, Valanciunas, Ed Davis, and T. Ross, we have budding HOF'ers who are going to push this roster into contention.

Just stay positive you guys... This is a very well managed team, with some great pieces at bargain contracts. Every team short of the Heat and the Lakers are jealous of the Raps you can bet that!!



Go RapS!

3rd time i read this in three different threads. please stop wasting my time. i assume your trolling or trying to come off sarcastic but i got it the first time

[madeupid25]

You guys have to realize what a unique talent this guy is...

Bargnani has such a special skill set for a guy his size. We just have to harness his potential, and with a little more time, and a few breaks our way, Andrea Bargnani can be the focal point of a Championship offense in the NBA.

Everyone here has to forget this negativity, and just have faith that Bryan Colangelo has a fantastic conception of this team's potential, and its direction. We are slowly, but surely, building towards greatness here. People are panicing way to early right now.

What guys, I mean, we're only like 12 games in here. Sure, things aren't going as well as expected. There have been injuries during the last two years, but we are trending in a very positive direction.

DeRozan, Bargnani, Kleiza, Fields, Amir Johnson... These are great blue collar, lunch pail type of players, who are just such a solid core to build around.

With Lowry, Valanciunas, Ed Davis, and T. Ross, we have budding HOF'ers who are going to push this roster into contention.

Just stay positive you guys... This is a very well managed team, with some great pieces at bargain contracts. Every team short of the Heat and the Lakers are jealous of the Raps you can bet that!!



Go RapS!

[Sig]

As disappointed as I've been in Bargnani, I still can't help but feel sympathetic towards the guy. Especially after this constant barrage of negativity lol.

[Puffer]

... I can only imagine how frustrating it is for the players losing in so many close games.

Just hope they don't get disheartened. I don't expect them to. They played through a lot of grief last year and kept going.