Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Stretch 4 vs. Typical 4

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    If your question is Bargnani or Ed Davis. Then obviously Ed Davis

    Comment


    • #17
      Seems a lot of posters want to exclude anyone not named bargs or make exceptions for anyone succesful. Bosh in miami is definitely a stretch four.

      To me any 4 who makes you respect his shot and keeps a defender on him outside of 10 feet is a stretch four.

      I can only think of dirk where a team has been built for a stretch 4 and won. Bird in todays game with the super athletic 3s would be a 4 as well i think.
      Last edited by Miekenstien; Tue Nov 27th, 2012, 02:40 AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Stretch 4's like Garnett, Nowitzki, Bosh, Wallace, etc. Are very good rebounders at the the very minimum, and are able to hold their ground defensively.

        Andrea Bargnani is too far one-dimensional; both offensively (jump-shooter, no variety), and defensively - also, he has a weak post game, and plays like a guard. (Not a very good one at that either.)
        Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

        Comment


        • #19
          If the question is whether a team can be successful with a player like AB at the 4 .. the answer is absolutely yes. The question isnt around the type of player imo - is about the execution and performance of that player.
          Can your 4 be relatively weak defensively and shoot a lot of jumpshots? Yes .. see Dirk, Bosh, Gasol even Ryan Anderson. However, that player has to bring WAY more in other areas than AB is currently bringiong (FG%, rebounds, passing, defense, etc)
          I think we need to distinguish between a player that is either just bad (or is playing bad currently .. I guess thats a matter of interpretation) .. and a position thats fundamentally flawed. If AB was making more shots and picking up a few more rebounds, we would all be happy and this team would be doing a lot better. The reality is the STYLE of his game isnt THAT different from many successful PFs of later. The EXECUTION however is severly behind ..

          Comment


          • #20
            Like many of the others have already said, in today's NBA, every team has a '4' that can shoot from 16 ft and beyond. Heck, Amir can hit that too. The game has evolved away from "power" forwards scoring on the low blocks, the same way it has moved away from traditional centers. The current NBA center, league avg, is more like the historical powerforward of yester-years. So if you are looking for a historical perspective of whether a team can win with a stretch player at the typical low-post position, then perhaps your question is more about centers in today's NBA.

            For those that are trying to argue that you have to shoot 3's to be a stretch "4", then I think you are missing the point. The point of a stretch 4 is to stretch the defence away from the hoop, so really anything above the free throw line works.

            Look at all of the Championship teams since the Jordan-Bulls (they end the last era imo); almost all of them have had a player who played significant minutes at the "4" spot, while shooting (and hitting) from 18 feet.

            1999-2001 LA Lakers - Robert Horry (while guarding Dikembe Mutombo in '99)
            2002 Spurs - Finals MVP Tim Duncan
            2003 Detroit - Rasheed Wallace, Mehmet Okur
            2004 Spurs - Finals MVP Tim Duncan
            2005 Heat - no real impact player (Antoine Walker was on the roster as a 6th man role but their win was 75% Wade, 24% Shaq, 1% everyone else)
            2006 Spurs - Tim Duncan
            2007 Celtics - Garnett, Glen Davis
            2008-2010 Lakers - Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom
            2011 Mavericks - Finals MVP Dirk Nowitzki, Marion
            2012 Heat - LeBron James

            But to make the stretch 4 affective, you need to have a guard capable of penetrating the defence, drawing in the defenders that leave the stretch 4 open. Look again at the list, but throw the names Kobe, Tony Parker, D-Wade, and Rondo on there and you can see why the stretch forward was affective. The outliers were Detroit and Dallas. Detroit won by playing superior defence and having a number of capable shooters. Dallas won by riding Dirk's 14 foot elbow post game, which was unguardable.

            So can a team win with Bargnani, which is the real question to be honest? Yes and no. Can a team win with Bargnani playing a tiertiary role and shooting well? Absolutely. Can a team win with Barg's playing like he is now? Not a chance if he's a starter. In comparing Bargnani to the list above, he is closer to Robert Horry than any of the others in terms of "start" level on a championship team. Horry was a role player, a very good (in the playoffs at least) and smart role player who came up big when he needed to. Barg's could do that. But the rest of those guys, Duncan, KG, Dirk, LeBron are all-time star players, so it likely didn't matter if they were a stretch 4 or not, they were epic.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

            Comment


            • #21
              I think we can break the power forward position down to 3 areas:

              You have the stretch 4....player with 3 point range. Ryan Anderson/Channing Frye
              You have a Face-up 4...player with ability to face up and hit 18-20 footers and drive the ball. Chris Bosh/PAul Milsap
              you have Traditonal 4...plaer with mostly post-up game and high post jumper (15 feet). Pau Gasol, Elton Brand (pre Phily)

              I think we get a many players that have a combination of 2 of the 3, so it is not easy to peg them as a traditional or stretch.
              Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

              Comment


              • #22
                Axel wrote: View Post
                1999-2001 LA Lakers - Robert Horry (while guarding Dikembe Mutombo in '99)
                2002 Spurs - Finals MVP Tim Duncan
                2003 Detroit - Rasheed Wallace, Mehmet Okur
                2004 Spurs - Finals MVP Tim Duncan
                2005 Heat - no real impact player (Antoine Walker was on the roster as a 6th man role but their win was 75% Wade, 24% Shaq, 1% everyone else)
                2006 Spurs - Tim Duncan
                2007 Celtics - Garnett, Glen Davis
                2008-2010 Lakers - Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom
                2011 Mavericks - Finals MVP Dirk Nowitzki, Marion
                2012 Heat - LeBron James
                Detroit won in 04. Spurs won in 05. Heat won in 06. Spurs won 07. Celtics won 08. Lakers 09 & 10 seasons.
                Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                Comment


                • #23
                  RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                  Detroit won in 04. Spurs won in 05. Heat won in 06. Spurs won 07. Celtics won 08. Lakers 09 & 10 seasons.
                  I used the year that the season started in and the info was pulled from the NBA website. The last couple I added myself, so they might be on a different time scale than the rest. But my point remains the same.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X