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Big V headed to the bench! Are you kidding me????

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  • #16
    I don't think Jonas coming off the bench is a bad thing. (I was actually quite suprised he started the year and not Gray.) As long as he is getting good minutes is the important part. He'll still get an opportunity to learn, and playing against 'back ups' more often may lead to him being on the court for more total minutes if it reduces his foul rate.

    That said, this entire idea - that the Raps need a change and we'll change everything other than the root problem - is a systemic issue with this team.

    the one part of his game that has been slower to come is the ability to anticipate when he needs to make the move from his own man and slide over and help on the attacking guard or forward coming down the lane.
    I agree with this, but why is it so important that the teams gets so much better help defense from their C right now? Because the C is the only big man on the floor doing it (JV is and was constantly paired with Bargnani)

    He's got to get there quicker to help. Reading what's coming, anticipating is the word I want to use, because right now he's so in tune with being physical with his guy, making sure he's not letting him duck in that in that one split second he's got to be ready. Amir does a good job of it, Eddie does a good job, Aaron Gray does a good job, bounce and go.

    "You have to go protect the paint and he's about a half second off of that, being where he has to be," Casey said. "It's experience and being there numerous times, he's getting better at it but he's still not there yet. Recognizing that situation and it's a split moment."
    grumble grumble grumble

    The mistake would be to view this as a critique of Valanciunas and his progress.
    The mistake is to view this as anything other than letting Bargnani off the hook yet again.
    Last edited by Craiger; Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 07:29 AM.

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    • #17
      ive been watching JV intensely since he hit the court and i feel like i can say with confidence his minutes will drop even more. casey has been benching him when he hits that 2 foul as the usual, but then casey just removes him from the game completely if he hits that 3rd or 4th foul.

      the last game where he got to stay in until fouled out, he went 16 and 10 against charlotte's big men, with a block and two steals. the other game was boston where as you can imagine, the refs made quick work of toronto on the calls, and he was gone in under 20minutes.

      i wont sit here and tell you that JV 'should be left in' against teams he obviously sucks against. but then again, i will tell you that being on the raptors, he has no vet to mentor him. raptors coaching has done jack shit to turn bargs, ed, amir into even average rebounding players. i have no hope of JV getting the experience he needs being on the raptors and especially with getting bench minutes.

      how the raptors can ignore the fact he was a superstar in lithuania, and dont put him on a fasttrack to learn the ins-and-outs of nba style so he can adapt. its mind boggling.

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      • #18
        phez wrote: View Post
        ive been watching JV intensely since he hit the court and i feel like i can say with confidence his minutes will drop even more. casey has been benching him when he hits that 2 foul as the usual, but then casey just removes him from the game completely if he hits that 3rd or 4th foul.

        the last game where he got to stay in until fouled out, he went 16 and 10 against charlotte's big men, with a block and two steals. the other game was boston where as you can imagine, the refs made quick work of toronto on the calls, and he was gone in under 20minutes.

        i wont sit here and tell you that JV 'should be left in' against teams he obviously sucks against. but then again, i will tell you that being on the raptors, he has no vet to mentor him. raptors coaching has done jack shit to turn bargs, ed, amir into even average rebounding players. i have no hope of JV getting the experience he needs being on the raptors and especially with getting bench minutes.

        how the raptors can ignore the fact he was a superstar in lithuania, and dont put him on a fasttrack to learn the ins-and-outs of nba style so he can adapt. its mind boggling.
        I know this is a minor part of your post but I wanted to point out Ed Davis is one of the best rebounders in the league (22% rebound rate) and Amir Johnson (14.5%) rebounds at a slightly greater than average rate.

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        • #19
          What's funny is that Casey actually believes this season is still salvageable. Why else would he make this move?

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          • #20
            JV should never have been starting in the first place. How often do you see rookies earn the starting role without dominating performances? It was a mistake to start him and now they've corrected the mistake. I expect him to learn from the reserve role and earn his way back into the starting lineup.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • #21
              Nilanka wrote: View Post
              What's funny is that Casey actually believes this season is still salvageable. Why else would he make this move?
              Not Salvageable for playoffs, but salavageable in the fact to get some wins and compete every game. I honestly fon't mind the move he also said he is going to pretty much go back to people earning their time and sticking with whats working, JV could come off the bench with Ed and he sticks with it I actually like the idea of letting JV come off the bench for now settle him down a little, love JV but he was bullied in the last 2 games.

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              • #22
                Retarded

                i understand JV has had more rookie nights than promising nights lately but he's still been more active and a better rebounder than anyone not named Ed Davis. A lot of the fouls he picks up are from trying to protect the basket because certain other players are pylons on defense. Anyone notice how frustrated/annoyed he looks when he picks up a foul because of that kind of thing?

                #tradebargnani #freeEd #saveValfromdoingsomethingheregrets
                @sweatpantsjer

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                • #23
                  I like this because because it means he'll be playing with Calderon, who will actually pass it to him when he's open on the picknroll dives
                  "Stop eating your sushi."
                  "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                  "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                  - Jack Armstrong

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                  • #24
                    Would love to see Amir replace AB in the starting 5 instead, but clearly the Golden Child is untouchable. Not mad at Casey for this move. I felt from the start that JV should have come off the bench. He's good, and has all the tools, but he's a rookie and prone to mistakes.

                    Frankly, I'll support any changes if it results in a win at this point.

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                    • #25
                      Nilanka wrote: View Post
                      What's funny is that Casey actually believes this season is still salvageable. Why else would he make this move?
                      Or, he acknowledges the fact that playoffs is impossible, wants to give JV less minutes for less risk of injuries and less mileage.

                      I dont like the move, but he's right. If he's going to play Bargnani anyways, might as well use him as as a decoy. Id rather he do this, than tell everybody that he's keeping Bargnani in the game because he wants the ball in Bargnani's hands. JV wont score a ton of points anyways, Amir can probably get the same number of rebounds and blocks. It wasnt like JV was averaging 20-10.

                      The only thing that would worry me is the hit on JVs ego. Rookie year, everybody's telling him he's the "chosen one", he's probably only 1 of the 2 players who plays pedal-to-the-metal every game and yet he gets the boot from the starting lineup. Not good for his ego, but he'll get over it. I think its better that he's seeing the harsh reality now rather than later. And besides, he's mature for his age, so he'll understand.

                      With whats been going on in the past few games and how Casey has been coaching this team, nothing surprises or irritates me anymore when it comes to the Raps.
                      Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri Dec 7th, 2012, 09:35 AM.

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                      • #26
                        This is why the Raptors can't have nice things. They finally get a "plus" prospect and they: freeze him out of the offence, bench him sporadically, and now publicly put the defensive issues on him and bench him. What a joke of an organization.

                        Here we are after all this rebuilding, etc. and what do we have: a starting lineup with Bargnani, Derozan, Amir; along with Calderon still playing 25 minutes a game. The same failed group of players they've had for years.

                        This organization is a joke.

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                        • #27
                          By the way, Casey criticizing Val's help defense is laughable when he continues to throw Bargnani out there who still is entirely useless as a help defender after 7 years. So, Val has to: defend his own man, box out two guys (his and Bargs'), coordinate the defense, play the pick and roll to centre court cause out guards can't defend their way out of a wet paper bag, and play perfect help defense.

                          F*$^ this organization. I'm close to the edge with this team.

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                          • #28
                            I'm not upset about JV coming off the bench I'm more upset about the timing of it. Cries for Bargnani to come off the bench are foolish IMO as he is the best big on the team today. With that being said regarding the two points above.

                            I was surprised JV was the opening night starter and thought they would bring him along off the bench with Jose running pick n rolls.

                            Bargnani's playing time should be scaled back when he's not giving an honest effort aka a quick yank and seat on the bench. 3 minutes in and no effort have a seat big fella. Sending him to the bench to start the game isn't the message you want to send to him or the rest of the league (trade value). Making him accountable is through PT and making him earn it.

                            Also for what it's worth when I saw the title of the thread I was expecting to see Ed Davis getting the start but to my disappointment it's Amir. Amir has been the second biggest disappointing this year behind Dre. In my depth chart Amir is the fourth best big. Everyone is crying for Ed Davis to start over Dre but no one cares that Amir got gets the start over Ed...

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                            • #29
                              It is so obvious to me that our best lineup includes Davis and Val. Am I wrong?

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                              • #30
                                slaw wrote: View Post
                                This is why the Raptors can't have nice things. They finally get a "plus" prospect and they: freeze him out of the offence, bench him sporadically, and now publicly put the defensive issues on him and bench him. What a joke of an organization.

                                Here we are after all this rebuilding, etc. and what do we have: a starting lineup with Bargnani, Derozan, Amir; along with Calderon still playing 25 minutes a game. The same failed group of players they've had for years.

                                This organization is a joke.
                                Agreed on just about everything. Casey doesn't play his young guys plain and simple. Last year when we were supposed to be developing our young players several didn't get a sniff of time. Ed Davis should have been logging major minutes, Bayless over Jose, JJ over Butler and even Alabi should have seen the court more. Let the kids play through mistakes and stock pile those loses to get a stud in the draft. I like Ross a lot but Barnes and MKG both would have looked better in the starting line up then Fields. Last year was the perfect situation for the Raptors to develop prospects and lose games instead Casey used all of his schemes and play calls to work his way up the standings late. No wonder our play calls suck this year.... He used them all last season!

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