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Draft Day 2012 and onwards - What would you have done?

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  • Draft Day 2012 and onwards - What would you have done?

    2012-2013 Salary
    Ideal 2013-14 nine man rotation (age at start of 2013-14 season)
    PG: Kyle Lowry (27)
    SG: James Harden (24)
    SF: Landry Fields (25)
    PF: Ed Davis (24)
    C: Andre Drummond (20)
    6th man / Bench scorer: Louis Williams (27)
    PG: Marcus Teague (20)
    Wing: Corey Brewer (27)
    Big: Amir Johnson (26)
    Rotation Salary = 47 million

    Strengths: ATHLETICISM! (height, speed, aggressiveness), rebounding, 2-way potential, identity, guard-play
    Weaknesses: Outside shooting of forwards and big men, unknown development of Drummond, Davis, and Teague

    What would need to happen to contend for a trophy:
    Landry Fields > 40% 3pt
    Ed Davis > 45% mid-range
    Andre Drummond > 60% FT
    Lowry > 75 games played
    OKC plane crash! :P

    PG: Kyle Lowry (27)
    SG: Terrence Ross (22)
    SF: Demar Derozan (24)
    PF: Ed Davis (24)
    C: Jonas Valanciunas (21)
    6th man / Bench scorer: Andrea Bargnani (28)
    PG: John Lucas III (20)
    Wing: Landry Fields (27)
    Big: Amir Johnson (26)
    Rotation Salary = 50 million

    Did I do much better? I'm not really sure I did.

    What would be your realistic 2013-2014 roster if you started from draft day 2012?

  • #2
    Wow detailed. Nothing wrong starting out with a bang!

    Mine is going to be much more simple

    1) try and package Andrea Bargnani or Demar Derozan + #8 pick in an attempt to move up in the draft. Any spot higher than #7.

    2) if the above doesn't happen or Demar is included, trade Andrea for almost anything. Preferable a first round pick or cap space.

    3) should the team still have been left with the #8 pick - draft Drummond

    4) look to add future picks by most means. Only untouchable would have been Jonas + whatever pick(s) were made.

    5) Do nothing or little else other than basic and simple signings to fill out the roster. Accept another year of losing and keep rebuilding.


    • #3
      I think it's easy to talk after 1/3 season is already played. Did you even know the guy like Alex Shved before the start of this season, and did you consider Ed Davis as a starting caliber PF in preseason? It was hard to predict so early Harden's trade too...
      (Sorry for poor English )


      • #4
        What are we supposed to say here...that this team would probably be better than the one we have now? ok I agree!


        • #5
          I was going by what I knew from the last full length season. In that year, Amir ranked 32nd in WS/48 for big men that played at least 1000 minutes, and he was only 23. In the same year, Ed Davis ranked 3rd among rookies for the same measure (behind Blake Griffin and Greg Monroe, and he was only 21. I was happy with a platoon at power forward, and hoped that Ed would finish ahead of Amir in the long run. They're just stats and I couldn't have predicted that Ed would clean up his jumper as well as he did. That's why Amir was higher ranked for this season and I expected Ed to surpass Amir if things went right and he developed a jumper and hook shot. Otherwise, the gamble was a flop. But Drummond was also a huge gamble. He was perhaps the 2nd best defender in the NCAA last year, but I expected his offense to be a major liability at first. I still would've taken him and planned to start him in his second year. He was only 18 at the draft, so I couldn't have passed on that kind of talent.


          • #6
            To be honest, I have no idea what you're supposed to say, but I'm learning as I go on this. I just thought it would be fun take look back and take a realistic stab at GM now that you know what deals were available and how players were valued.

            I guess my question is do you think this scenario was realistic?

            Can you make one that is realistic?
            Last edited by red monkey; Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:47 AM.


            • #7
              And to answer your question about Shved, I live in Europe and I've seen him play enough to know his game, but the euroleague final is what did it for me. He took over when Kirilenko disappeared and he seemed supremely confident, even if they did lose to Olympiakos in the end.


              • #8
                Well there are two ways to approach this. If this is what I would have done knowing what I know now, your breakdown is awesome and most of what you say could have happened. The only difference I might make is that if we got Harden I wouldn't trade for Lowry. The two of them don't compliment each other very well IMO, both are slashers and scorers. I would stick with Jose as my starter and Lou as the back up.

                If we take the perspective of running through the excercise of what we would have done in BC's shoes, I actually don't have that much of a problem with it. Some of the things he did that I wouldn't have done (extend DD, draft Ross) have actually worked out pretty well. I think I would have traded Bargs by now and I probably wouldn't have signed Field for as much as he did but overall it is hard to look at the moves and complain too much. Bargs lingering here is the only really big issue.

                Great first post, I enjoyed it.
                "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."



                • #9
                  I don't agree with much of anything you posted. I would change a few things, but not that many.

                  Draft: I would have traded down after Barnes was gone at 8. I still have doubts about Drummond making the most of his potential, and with JV I think we will have a more all-around, fundamentally sound player. If Drummond loses his explosiveness due to injury, or you know, his fat ass, he doesn't have any other tools at the moment. I would have traded down, and honestly, no shit guys, I love that we picked Terrence Ross, but thought he was someone we could trade down for and would have been my first choice, with these others as options: Jared Sullinger, Terrence Jones, Moe Harkless. I think Sullinger would've been good insurance in terms of having a scorer on the PF depth chart, because even though I wouldn't trade Bargs in the offseason, I would want to be prepared for that eventuality. BUT, we ended up drafting Ross anyway, so I'll assume we end up with him, trading down or not.
                  2nd round pick: I agree with you here, I think the Raps took the wrong Quincy. Miller might have questions about his body, but his talent is off the charts. I have nothing against Acy, but it's hard to see him as anything other than the 4th or 5th big at best on any team. I think if you believed in your own overhyped sports science and medicine staff, you would draft for that talent, and spend the whole year working on his body. It's not like Acy has seen any run.

                  Free agents: I don't necessarily think I would have gone after Nash, but I certainly would not have made that offer sheet to Fields. Even if he was a target, and I like him, and hope his shooting touch does come back, I would have offered him something like 10 million over 3 years, maybe as high as 12 mill. I do think this FA class did end up being a crapshoot. I think though, my first SF target might've been Kirilenko, and if I couldn't get him at something like 3 years/20 million, then I would make the Fields offer. Other than that, I fully approve with the Alan Anderson re-signing, and wouldn't want another 2 guard, with Ross backing up Demar. I am ok with the Aaron Gray signing, but I was really hoping we go after Camby to be a vet on our team. Frankly, if we did draft Ross and Miller, than we'd have an open big spot and could maybe sign Gray and Camby. I was also a fan of the Lucas signing as a 3rd guard...So, I'd hope to pick up Kirilenko, Anderson, Gray, Camby and Lucas.

                  Trades: Was a big fan of the Lowry trade, and the only deal I would try over it would be to get Bledsoe away from the Clippers in a similar deal. Maybe for an unprotected 1st rounder this year. I honestly don't know what it will take to get him, but given his low-cost deal, I don't see how the Clips can expect to get a useful player back. Maybe I'd offer them a 2014 protected pick (top 10 in 2014, top 5 in 2015, and #1 in 2016) as well. 2 first rd picks for Bledsoe is steep, but I was a big fan of his and thought he was a draft option on 2010.

                  So, if everything went through, the team would look like:
                  PG: Jose, Bledsoe (younger than Lowry and could ease him into the starter's role), Lucas
                  SG: Demar, Ross
                  SF: Kirilenko, Anderson, Miller
                  PF: Andrea, Ed, Kleiza
                  C: JV, Amir, Gray, Camby

                  In my mind, this team has some better vets mixed in than the one we currently have. None of them would take minutes from our prospect. Kirilenko would help stabilize our SF position., I'd really love to have that kid. He's too good to be playing so few minutes. I really wonder what it'll take to get him away from the Clippers. Miller would give a prospect who'd love to get fed minutes when injuries happen, but that there wouldn't be pressure to play him or high expectations at all for teh season. And I think Camby would give us a veteran big man we desperately need, even if he only saw time when there's foul trouble on JV and Amir. Our team overall would not look much different, but I think chemistry would be much better.
                  Note: I would be quick to trade Bargs if he didn't bring even 90% of that 13-game Bargs. I suppose everything depends on offers, but as long as we didn't have to trade any of our young players away in any deal, I'd be open to lots of scenarios.


                  • #10
                    Some good ideas here. I guess the problem with the Raptors is that the screw-ups started around 4 years ago. I haven't thought much about alternatives, but here's 3 things I wouldn't have done:

                    -sign Landry Fields
                    -trade for Kyle Lowry
                    -extend DeMar DeRozan

                    Remove those 3 things and I think we're still basically on track for whatever. I would have stuck with Jose Calderon (ie the rebuild). He's the best option available for developing young talent because all he does is run your offense and distribute. I'd have traded Bargs years ago.. but would I have traded him during this offseason? Probably not aggressively, especially after Ed Davis' disappointing 2nd season.
                    your pal,


                    • #11
                      This was well thought out but it is dependent on a lot of if's, and maybe's, such as teams accepting trades and player willing to sign. Fantasy basketball at its finest.


                      • #12
                        I like the roster with Kirilenko but his asking price was 10+ million per year, and that would have been tough to stomach at the time, even if I like it now. I have just been so desperate to get rid of Andrea for so many years that I chose to unload him as a starting point, and it was a bonus that his value might've been high. I also valued Drummond as the 2nd best prospect in the draft (mostly because I respect Givony's opinion) and I heard rumblings that Harden could be had for Valanciunas. I think Harden is a future superstar and Demar had always been averse to defense and rebounding so I considered Demar disposable. Plus I figured that OKC would want a decent young shooting guard in return. I like the Ross draft pick, but I know for certain that I would have taken Drummond as the BPA and gone from there. I probably would've overpaid for Fields as well at 3 years 14 million, but I still like him as a player.

                        The one thing I don't know is whether or not I would have gone after Nash. That could screw up everything, which I think it ultimately did for BC. My problem with the way he did it is that Andrea is useless without Nash, so there really was no backup plan. The potential reward did not merit the risk, and now we're stuck with the same old Andrea.


                        • #13
                          i would have traded

                          bargs+jose+demar for LBJ+ray allen+wade

                          then i hire Phil Jackson to coach

                          if that didnt work i prob just trade Bargs for a rack of towels & a fridge full of Gatorade.. if that didnt work.. maybe a bag of peanuts even...


                          • #14
                            Very good first post - I dont agree with everything .. but I at least think that everything (in isolation) that you have suggested is realistic. Thats quite the accomplishment around here, as many people's trades / hindsight are completely unrealistic (whehter its JCs trade value or the fact that "everyone" would have taken Gay, who went 8th! instead of AB).

                            I think the only thing that is unrealistic about what have suggested is that its a shitload of moves in a very short timeframe! The chances of all of those things falling into place for the same team are very, very remote.

                            In terms of what I would have done .. it would have been more simple. I would have taken Drummond 8. Not to keep him necessarily, but to have him as an asset to either trade that night or down the road. I love T Ross (hes my favourite Rap right now (not the best player, I know .. but maybe our best sign of hope?!) - but the fact is we took him 3 or 4 spots higher than we needed to. Worst case, we trade Drummond to someone for T Ross + something. If that doesnt fly, we have a lot of 2/3s anyways (LF, DD, AA, LK) - so not the end of the world to have AD, JV and our other frontcourt guys.

                            Of course, that probably means you move one or more of AB, ED or AJ. Nobody knew AB was going to be as historically bad as he has been this year .. so its easy to say trade him now .. but realistically I would have traded the guy who got me the most value (probably Ed, or maybe JV if you could get something REALLY good back). Bottom line, Ed, JV and AD is probably overkill for post players with max 12 foot range offensively.

                            Id probably still to the lowry deal. Hes cheap and has a lot of potential (notwithstanding the rocky play lately). I pay LF half of what we paid him (ok maybe a little more .. but 3/12 at the most).

                            Net net, I wouldnt be miles away from where BC is today .. but I think we could be better off with a few simple changes.