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  • #31
    BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    Davis is a good player, he deserves to be traded for Rudy Gay.



    I still would not do it. I like what Davis has shown this season, hate to be the prick that moves him elsewhere. He has been a good raptor.
    Here's the thing. I believe one of the very overlooked aspects of what Casey and BC (it started before Casey arrived) are doing in building a "new culture" of high character guys who want/enjoy playing here and with each other. I don't believe for a second that this "togetherness" we're seeing began only when the turnaround began. I'd hate to see this path disrupted, except for a true all-star talent, and I fail to see Gay as being that talent.

    He's athletically gifted, but as I said earlier, his overall shooting efficiency is equivalent to AB's and his 3P shooting is equivalent to DD's, and that's with guys like Z-Bo and Gasol taking defensive attention away from him!! Hell, he's not even a good defender, yet fans want the Raps to give up assets and pay this guy what they pay both DD and AB combined? IMHO, it makes zero sense, when most criticism of BC has been that he jumps too often at quick fixes and needs to be patient with a slow build. Damn, I see a very nice wing rotation of DD/Fields/Ross developing, with Anderson keeping them all honest.

    I'm all in favour of using assets to improve, but don't see Gay as a good move at all.

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    • #32
      They've been fun to watch, but if there is an opportunity to improve the team long term you have to take it. At the end of the day only 3 of our victories are against teams over .500 (Indiana, Houston, and Portland). The rest of our victories are against mostly bottom feeders (Orlando x 3, Clevland, Phoenix, New Orleans). We've also got a few wins agains teams like Minnesota, Detroit and Philli, whom are contenders for playoff spots I suppose, but the win agains Minni and Philli was with key players out I beleive.

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      • #33
        Giving up Davis for Gay makes no sense to me. He will be a rental and nothing else. If the guy isnt happy in Memphis, he wont be happy here unless we are going to the finals. That wont happen in the 2 year window we have. I would rather have Ed Davis for those years than this over payed malcontent.

        Try and move expiring contracts and dead weight like bargs and see what we end up with. That should be the priority. Dont give up players that make quantum leaps in their game for 2 year expensive rentals.

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        • #34
          BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
          I hear you, I just dont want to have empty pockets when all is said and done.
          You don't have empty pockets, you have 10 million in cap space you can throw at whoever you want to. Isn't that just as good as using Jose to pick up an aging PF with bad knees that has been injured as much as he has played? Or a B tier SF who is paid A tier franchise type dollars?

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          • #35
            Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
            Besides moving Bargnani honestly why shake up the team now?

            -Buying into the Team System
            -Chemistry
            -Confidence
            -Ball Movement
            -Role Acceptance

            Raps are playing real well and to make the move for the seemingly likely Rudy Gay trade which would cost us Calderon+ a solid piece really why? Is anyone in favor of riding the current build to see where we go and then make a move in off season?
            Calderon should be turned in to an asset at or before the deadline, whenever the best opportunity presents itself.

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            • #36
              CT2010 wrote: View Post
              You don't have empty pockets, you have 10 million in cap space you can throw at whoever you want to. Isn't that just as good as using Jose to pick up an aging PF with bad knees that has been injured as much as he has played? Or a B tier SF who is paid A tier franchise type dollars?
              Depends on who you are offering the money to, if they will take it, if you have to overpay (history says yes), if they fill a position of need, and if you want that cap space to be the only tool for adding talent besides the $2.5M exception.

              http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

              From the free agents, who is worth $10M? I think Millsap. But then what happens to ED/Amir? At SF, I don't see anyone worth $10M. I like Wright though. What about backup PG? If you go SG what happens to DD or Ross? C? Again, what about ED/Amir/ and now JV?

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              • #37
                mike, prague wrote: View Post
                True but I think regarding the whole "trade Calderon" question, if it ends up in anyway it is a going to be a big gamble. Like honestly, everybody here has to agree that nobody on the current roster drives the team like Jose, as much as I love Lowry and as much as he has shown his passing potencial, you can kind of tell that he is more of a shoot first PG even though he has tried to pass more often recently. The Raptors style is the team first style and that is what Calderon does best and does it as one of the best in the league. If you trade Jose you are gambling that the new guy (Gay?) might become like the previously brought in guys (Marion, Hedo Jerkoglu) and that the team chemistry will fall apart to a larger extent.

                If keep till June then your risking him leaving for nothing obviously and all you can do is hope that he will see a team that hopefully is on the rise (with that team being the Raptors) and him wanting to be a part of it.

                So according to me no matter what Colangelo does it will be a gamble and in the long run people will likely start complaining about how it should have been done in a situation where no decision is necesarily the right one.
                It is not a recipe for success having 2 starting pg's on the team. It's not good asset allocation. I don't happen to feel Jose is a starting pg, on a good team. But of course, he does. We shouldn't re sign him, so we should get something for him. Great guy, great pro, but not the pg I would want on a playoff team, which I believe the raps will be in the future. Lowry is the pg of the future.

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                • #38
                  Because I'd rather play Lowry more. Because Jose won't accept a backup role with less money. If he did, sure, am all for it.

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                  • #39
                    kuzzybear wrote: View Post
                    The Raptors can put 1 of the 3 best PG combs in the NBA on the floor. Why would anyone want to downgrade that position?
                    it is a long season ( injuries )
                    it is a long season ( some nights 1 has it and the other doesn't )
                    it is a long season ( it is the toughest position to play )
                    it is a long career ( Jose has never asked to be moved and seems to like Toronto) ( He might be open to a reasonable new contract to become the Raptor's first lifer)
                    Because I want Lowry to play more. Because Jose is unlikely to accept a backup role at a significantly lower salary. If he did, sure, fine, happy to have him as a backup.

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                    • #40
                      big boi wrote: View Post
                      Because I'd rather play Lowry more. Because Jose won't accept a backup role with less money. If he did, sure, am all for it.

                      Yesssss.

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                      • #41
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        Depends on who you are offering the money to, if they will take it, if you have to overpay (history says yes), if they fill a position of need, and if you want that cap space to be the only tool for adding talent besides the $2.5M exception.

                        http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

                        From the free agents, who is worth $10M? I think Millsap. But then what happens to ED/Amir? At SF, I don't see anyone worth $10M. I like Wright though. What about backup PG? If you go SG what happens to DD or Ross? C? Again, what about ED/Amir/ and now JV?
                        All great points. I nothing says that we have to spend it all on one guy either. I don't know what the answer is, but don't feel that trading Jose is the only viable option as it is being presented by many. If we resign him to a reasonable contract, then we have our PG tandem intact. I don't care who starts, don't have any agendas regarding either PG, as long as we win I am happy with the tandem. With the remaining money and assests that you have outlined above we can potentially secure a player or players that fit better in to our system. I agree on the overpaying comment, but Gay is hugely overpaid, to me makes Demar's extension look pretty reasonable.

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                        • #42
                          CT2010 wrote: View Post
                          ...I don't know what the answer is, but don't feel that trading Jose is the only viable option as it is being presented by many. If we resign him to a reasonable contract, then we have our PG tandem intact....
                          I think most posters concern is that if Jose doesn't resign, then all you have is some cap space, some of which get's eaten up by escalating salaries currently on the team. Whereas, trading Jose to a playoff team in need will net a decent piece.

                          As has been pointed out by so many, it's all about the talent. Excellent coaching can carry you some distance, but without talented players, a team isn't going anywhere. And having financial flexibility only means something if you can either A: Attract free agent talent, or B: Be the facilitator in a multi-team trade that lands you a talented player. For the Raps, "A" hasn't been terribly effective and "B" hasn't occurred. Hence Matt's mantra, "bad contracts for picks."

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                          • #43
                            Quite honestly, against poorer teams, or teams with less talent than the Raptors, the team seems to be able to out-play. They have good overall players, but none are players that can take them over the hump.

                            That's why a guy like Gay, or even some game-impact/difference-makers are needed (Deng, J. Smith, Milsap).

                            Apparently, there was a deal of Derozan + (pick or player, can't remember), for James Harden. Offered by OKC.





                            I don't know. If it was true, I don't know how you don't accept. Unless the reason was the contract negotiations.
                            Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                            • #44
                              RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                              Quite honestly, against poorer teams, or teams with less talent than the Raptors, the team seems to be able to out-play. They have good overall players, but none are players that can take them over the hump.

                              That's why a guy like Gay, or even some game-impact/difference-makers are needed (Deng, J. Smith, Milsap).

                              Apparently, there was a deal of Derozan + (pick or player, can't remember), for James Harden. Offered by OKC.





                              I don't know. If it was true, I don't know how you don't accept. Unless the reason was the contract negotiations.
                              I heard somewhere that Valanciunas was also part of the package OKC wanted for Harden. If true, it makes sense why Colangelo didn't bite.

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