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  • #16
    Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Of all people I'm going to say this, but you kinda missed seven years.
    You have also missed my solution for the second all-star that the Raptors already have on the roster. I'll save my formula for helping that man to blossom until someone tells me that Andrea has truly been motivated, Sicilian style, especially if they've had seven years to try.

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    • #17
      Roarque wrote: View Post
      In the interest of full disclosure, the Raptors do have an NBA All-Star ( or two ) on the roster already. In the first case, we have not learned how to motivate him. Now don't tell me that we've exhausted all the motivational tools at our disposal. As Don Corleone was said, "I made him an offer he couldn't refuse..," and who knows if Andrea has been offered th opportunity to:

      1.) Save his favourite horse from being slaughtered and left in an oversized bed with Andrea sleeping soundly beside the beast?
      2.) Have sex with his girlfriend in the privacy of the Raptors dressing room during the first ten minutes of each Raptor game, followed by a bowl of pasta before coming into the game as the potential sixth man of the year?
      3.) Pick another carrot or stick from your imagination and feel free to add it to this thread.

      We can all agree that Il Mago has the physical size and the internal electrical synapses needed to do whatever he wants on the offensive side of the game. Now he simply needs to be adequately compensated (carrot) or motivated (stick) until both sides of the equation are happy.

      Am I missing something here?
      Bargnani has never shown "all-NBA" understanding on the defensive end. I'll admit the guy has many OFFENSIVE skills other big men simply don't possess, but he's clueless on the defensive end. This doesn't seem like a motivational issue. It's an neurological/intellectual limitation, IMO. No motivational technique in the world is going to help Bargnani understand when to leave his weak-side man, and step in for the charge.

      Comment


      • #18
        Nilanka wrote: View Post
        I'll use the flawed p00ka response by appealing to authority to counter a point. Colangelo, a guy who knows much more about basketball than you, is interested in Gay....so that should tell you something

        Anyways, Gay's career shooting numbers look just fine.
        You're misrepresenting my argument about authority, but that's par for your course.

        I don't care what Gay was doing a few years ago. He would have been a great catch then. I care about what he's doing now. NOW is what is relevant when speaking of a player's worth going forward. What about his play right now says he's worth an average of $18M/yr over the next 2.5 years?

        As far as BC being interested: with word all over that Memphis is shopping Gay, we don't know if Memphis made the first call or BC did. If BC did, he's doing what any good GM would do, and inquired about the asking price. The asking price is too high, with the talent we have, so the "interest" is not very high, now is it?

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        • #19
          p00ka wrote: View Post
          You're misrepresenting my argument about authority, but that's par for your course.

          I don't care what Gay was doing a few years ago. He would have been a great catch then. I care about what he's doing now. NOW is what is relevant when speaking of a player's worth going forward. What about his play right now says he's worth an average of $18M/yr over the next 2.5 years?

          As far as BC being interested: with word all over that Memphis is shopping Gay, we don't know if Memphis made the first call or BC did. If BC did, he's doing what any good GM would do, and inquired about the asking price. The asking price is too high, with the talent we have, so the "interest" is not very high, now is it?
          I agree that Gay isn't worth his contract. Having said that, very few Raptors are. Bargnani, DeMar, Kleiza, Amir and Fields are all somewhat overpaid relative to the production they provide. Overpaying is what the Raptors do, lol. Spending $17 million on Gay is a lot, but the guy can still play. And with 3 years remaining, if things don't work out in 2 years, he instantly becomes a $19 million trade chip.

          As for evaluating the here and now, fair enough. That's your opinion. Others, myself included, believe that Gay has the physical tools to dominate a basketball game (EDIT: on both ends of the floor), and could use a change of scenery to get it done.
          Last edited by Nilanka; Mon Jan 14, 2013, 04:06 PM.

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          • #20
            I also read dougie's blog this morning. So I'll add my thought's minus the douchiness.

            He was suggesting the trade involved: jose, ross, and one of davis and valanciunas. for gay.

            I would do it.

            jose is jose.

            ross is a high end roll player, with the odds against him that he will ever be able to attack the basket and finish at an nba level (thin frame, poor ball handler, short arms)

            davis (no way valanciunas) only play's well against bird chested ass fellows like himself.

            In the end, there is only so much time you can wait for (middling) talent to develop, and I think that is too long considering we mortgaged a huge part of the future on lowry. people are going to say we can always trade an unhappy lowry, but we won't get fair value for him b/c a)he wants out after playing with developing players b)only a year left on his contract after this year. and if the price is too high GM's will wait until then.

            As a fan, who is completely disgusted with this franchise, and has resigned himself to what little playoff success the craptors can muster. is a job well done, I saw we trot out:

            lowry/lucas
            Derozan
            Gay
            Amir/Bargnani
            Valanciuans/who cares

            And have a good laugh. Move on with our lives. If we're lucky, this summer we'll be able to sign a talented PF as a free agent. Give josh smith or whoever the max or something.

            I realize that I have a rookie in valanciunas there, but I honestly believe he is an elite talent that can get his act together sooner rather than later.

            Comment


            • #21
              Roarque wrote: View Post
              You have also missed my solution for the second all-star that the Raptors already have on the roster. I'll save my formula for helping that man to blossom until someone tells me that Andrea has truly been motivated, Sicilian style, especially if they've had seven years to try.
              Oh boy, I can't wait.

              Comment


              • #22
                The only thing this fanbase should be concerned about is where Bargs fits. The team is just starting to gel, and then now amidst the trade rumours, we want / wish for things to be broken up. This is a great group of guys - let them gel for a bit.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                  I'm currently on the band wagon with what Houston has done in putting Harden and Lin together.
                  I don't think that Houston would have signed Lin if they'd known about the Harden deal at the time; but Harden is clearly a great pickup for them. I remember hearing somewhere, a few months ago, that Toronto were in that Harden discussion and Presti wanted Valanciunas. At the time (this was before the season started, before we saw Harden playing so well) I was glad it didn't happen. Now, I'd do that in a heartbeat.
                  "Stop eating your sushi."
                  "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                  "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                  - Jack Armstrong

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    ebrian wrote: View Post
                    Is anyone? Honestly I don't even know what a cornserstone is.
                    I'd say it's a guy who can be the best player on the floor, for at least one game, when playing against anyone else, when the stakes of that game are high.

                    For example, Rondo can be better than Lebron when they're playing high stakes games. Is he always better player than James? Of course not. But he can raise his game up to that highest level, so I would call Rondo a cornerstone.

                    On the other hand, as much as I enjoy seeing DeMar's improvement this year, I cannot imagine that he will ever be able to outplay any of the best players for even a single game when it matters.

                    Other cornerstones right now: Durant, Paul, Westbrook, Kobe, Anthony, Nowitzki, Duncan (maybe still?), D Rose, Kyrie, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard (I'll keep him here for the moment, but bad backs can be brutal), Noah, Randolph, Love, Rubio, Bynum (an injury prone cornerstone, the worst kind).

                    Potential cornerstones: Paul George, Steph Curry, Marc Gasol, Anthony Davis, Batum, Lillard, MKG, Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Monroe, and a bunch of other dudes with much slimmer chances (and I'd put Ross and Valanciunas in this category, with Ross ahead of Valanciunas).

                    And I agree with Mediumcore, I think you do whatever it takes to get any of these guys. You overpay for these guys.
                    "Stop eating your sushi."
                    "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                    "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                    - Jack Armstrong

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                      In my Gay and Bledsoe pairing it's Bledsoe that I think will be the star. I'm really excited about his game and I think he will break out in a starting role as Harden did this season. There is no comaring him with Bargnani because it took Bargs 6 or 7 years to show All Star talent, but Bledsoe is showing it in his 3rd season...as a back up...and he was injured for much of his second year I beleive. Needless to say I love Bledsoe's game and just have a really good feeling about him in starting role and given the reigns to his own team.
                      Bledsoes offensive game is incomplete. He's not a good shooter and currently relies on his godly athleticism to attack the rim. He's perfect as the backup pg in LAC due to the plethora of good shooters on their team (Crawford, Barnes, hill, green, butler). An energy guy who's brought in to draw a couple fouls, disrupt the opponent's offence and grab the occasional offensive rebound (which amazes me every time he does considering his height). He hasn't shown any significant playmaking ability aside from drive and kicks. Harden on the other hand had already proven playmaking and shotmaking ability. His game was already dangerously close to Manu playing as the 6th man to Westbrook and Durant. He's essentially Black Manu

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                      • #26
                        akashsingh wrote: View Post
                        I also read dougie's blog this morning. So I'll add my thought's minus the douchiness.

                        He was suggesting the trade involved: jose, ross, and one of davis and valanciunas. for gay.

                        I would do it.

                        jose is jose.

                        ross is a high end roll player, with the odds against him that he will ever be able to attack the basket and finish at an nba level (thin frame, poor ball handler, short arms)

                        davis (no way valanciunas) only play's well against bird chested ass fellows like himself.

                        In the end, there is only so much time you can wait for (middling) talent to develop, and I think that is too long considering we mortgaged a huge part of the future on lowry. people are going to say we can always trade an unhappy lowry, but we won't get fair value for him b/c a)he wants out after playing with developing players b)only a year left on his contract after this year. and if the price is too high GM's will wait until then.

                        As a fan, who is completely disgusted with this franchise, and has resigned himself to what little playoff success the craptors can muster. is a job well done, I saw we trot out:

                        lowry/lucas
                        Derozan
                        Gay
                        Amir/Bargnani
                        Valanciuans/who cares

                        And have a good laugh. Move on with our lives. If we're lucky, this summer we'll be able to sign a talented PF as a free agent. Give josh smith or whoever the max or something.

                        I realize that I have a rookie in valanciunas there, but I honestly believe he is an elite talent that can get his act together sooner rather than later.

                        +1 Lmao I like the second unit minus bargs/and Dribbles 2.0.........

                        Watching yesterday's game should have told Raptor fans on here something about this team ......the Raptors are not good enough! The lack the TALENT to compete with REAL teams......They lack the Go-to-guy,the shot creator,(not the two dribble pull up pasta boy does) For BC not to trade for gay when your giving up bench players is ludicrous jose davis and ross are all bench players at best...mediocre talent gets you nowhere .....this run against weaker competition has you guys delusional notice we have lost every half decent team we have played this year?! exempt Houston.... We need top tier talent and if you guys think Gay isn't top tier just know he is instantly the best player on the raps by a mile .....shows how weak this team is. 0.o

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Pong wrote: View Post
                          Bledsoes offensive game is incomplete. He's not a good shooter and currently relies on his godly athleticism to attack the rim. He's perfect as the backup pg in LAC due to the plethora of good shooters on their team (Crawford, Barnes, hill, green, butler). An energy guy who's brought in to draw a couple fouls, disrupt the opponent's offence and grab the occasional offensive rebound (which amazes me every time he does considering his height). He hasn't shown any significant playmaking ability aside from drive and kicks. Harden on the other hand had already proven playmaking and shotmaking ability. His game was already dangerously close to Manu playing as the 6th man to Westbrook and Durant. He's essentially Black Manu
                          You just described D.Wade's game to a tee. Just remember that he's just in this third season and was injured for much of his second year. He has a long way to go before you see the finished product but he's got a lot going for himself already as you described. Also if he was already a bonafied star ther would be no way the Clips would let him go. We have to take a chance on an unproven commodity that the organization evaluates and deems can be successful in a starting role on our team.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                            You just described D.Wade's game to a tee. Just remember that he's just in this third season and was injured for much of his second year. He has a long way to go before you see the finished product but he's got a lot going for himself already as you described. Also if he was already a bonafied star ther would be no way the Clips would let him go. We have to take a chance on an unproven commodity that the organization evaluates and deems can be successful in a starting role on our team.
                            Couple of things I'd like to point out. There are tons of NBA players who use their athleticism to attack the rim (albeit bledsoe is probably top tier in terms of athleticism), but that does not mean they have the same style of play as dwade. Wade was a great(not as good as he is now) ball handler and playmaker out of school, both of which are just average for bledsoe. Second, wade's a 2 guard, bledsoe's a 1. Unless this team gets some studs to fill the other positions, I rather not have a slasher as the primary point man. OKC can pull it off with Westbrook (though westbrook has become a much better shooter now) at point because Durant can knock down shots anywhere on the court even with defenders on him. Gay is a good shooter but no where near Durant's level. His 3pt shooting has actually been pretty bad the last 2 years.

                            And finally, as for acquiring Bledsoe i've read somewhere that LAC is pretty adamant on keeping him until they can secure CP3 who'll be a FA this summer. So it'll be tough to swing a deal for him. And if we do get him Jose will likely not be around which is unfortunate because he'd make a good mentor for him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              You could be right Pong, I'm not saying Bledsoe is a lock to be a franchise talent, but imo he has a shot at being really good and might be a good investment for a team looking to buy low before he possibly blows up. If he gets a consistent shot and you add that to his existing athletecism...watch out.

                              BTW, I never thought about comparing him to Westbrook, and I know there games are different, but they both have that go all out, play at lightning speed thing happening for him. Thanks for giving me something to think about.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                From what I've read the Clippers are not going to trade Bledsoe until the off season. Paul is a free agent and if he signs elsewhere then they would be screwed if they gave up Bledsoe now. However if Paul stays then I would love to have a guy like Bledsoe on the Raptors. That's the type of PG I was hoping for last year. A young PG with potential that can play along side a veteran. Similar to the relationship Lawson and Miller have in Denver.

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