pieces that fit together and the plan moving forward.

[ebrian]

I personally think this is a MYTH.. Look at the Blue Jays as an example from the early 90's and the raps from Vince Carter earlier days.....I firmly believe that "If you win - they will come." MOST players around the league have played here by now (as a visitor) and know that Toronto is an amazing city - one of the best in the world.

Unfortunately, our management sucks right now....our team sucks right now....Why would someone come here to waste their career playing with a losing team????

We cannot attract free agents BECAUSE our team sucks....plain and simple.

Baseball will always be a poor example of this, because in baseball with no salary cap, the line is changed to "If you pay - they will come."

Unfortunately Colangelo has taken this mantra to whole new level, drawing a bunch of bad players with the little big money we have left.

[Reinholt]

I agree that winning trumps everything. But how do you start winning without good players? How do you get good players if your assets aren't desired in trades?

The draft really is the best option right now.

You need great players to win.

You get there by some combination of drafting well, signing good and average players to great contracts (as in, cheap for the team and staggered well so that you have flexibility), maintaining cap space to acquire assets in trades from teams that are shedding them, and luck.

So even if you can't attract the best players, instead of jumping the gun at the start of free agency to overpay Fields, being patient and waiting to sign the second tier guys to solid contracts that make them trade assets is the way to go. Even if you can't draft the best players, even accumulating enough young guys with potential helps. Even if you can't sign anyone, holding the cap space to absorb other people's players can help.

There are many things to do. Stop overspending on mediocrity would be a great start.

[BallaBalla]

you are right to be skeptical in my opinion. most of the ideas in this thread are not likely or possible.

first of all the constant whining of keep Calderon is a continued bewilderment. raps are 1-16 vs plus.500 teams.

jv, Ross have potential but most potential becomes average at best.... but the potential for more is there. C I the hardest position to fill and jv appears to be a starting C long term. Ross is the 3 and D I have dreamed of. he looks like a solid 6th man and if he can get a handle maybe starter.

As for dd, ab returning lottery picks..... lol.... in 2014 lolx2. The raps would have to take on some horrible contracts for that to happen and even then unlikely. the right to swap picks would also be good and more likely IMO.

2014 is not about just wiggins. a lot can change in 1.5 years but there are a number of solid sf in 14 draft.

anything that can add picks is a good thing. I am not sure the raps have the assets to get t done. they certainly don't have the financial flexibility which is why I am ready for a new GM.

btw I am super envious of what Cleveland has done.

I read that somewhere too...I was surprised but then I realized that with Calderon putting his "stamp" on the team and offense over the course of this season I shouldnt have been


Overall that's what I was thinking. IMO, I think that we should continue to try and move calderon and bargs (obviously i think DD should go to but thats not happening) and get picks in return.

Im a little more optimistic with the guys we have though, Matt. I think that Lowry, ED, Ross and JV is a very serviceable lineup. If you let them mature and provide that go to wing scorer, we can be a good team in a few years.

a package with calderon should be able to get us something valuable in return, even if it has bargnani in it. Getting rid of these two guys will change the culture of the team and the atmosphere in the lockeroom, I believe, for the better

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Agreed -- you have to start somewhere.... I personally think the Draft (Vince Carter, Macgrady, Bosh) is the place to start. THEN you have to lock up your assests or trade them before they leave for nothing...... in our case our management let Macgrady and Bosh "string us along" and basically got nothing for them.

This is ridiculous and a good team won't survive for long while making these mistakes.

From here on out our management needs to lay out a plan (a la OKC and Utah)..... you offer a "fair" contract.... if the player says no or refuses to sign.... YOU TRADE THEM.... no ifs ands or buts.....it doesnt matter who this player is.

I agree with the strategy behind it. The idea of maximizing asset management is exactly why I am in favor of trading guys like Calderon, Anderson, Pietrus (vets on expiring contracts) at the deadline, and even exploring the option of trading Lowry (1.5 years left on excellent contract) over the next year.

[special1]

I agree that winning trumps everything. But how do you start winning without good players? How do you get good players if your assets aren't desired in trades?

The draft really is the best option right now.

Agreed -- you have to start somewhere.... I personally think the Draft (Vince Carter, Macgrady, Bosh) is the place to start. THEN you have to lock up your assests or trade them before they leave for nothing...... in our case our management let Macgrady and Bosh "string us along" and basically got nothing for them.

This is ridiculous and a good team won't survive for long while making these mistakes.

From here on out our management needs to lay out a plan (a la OKC and Utah)..... you offer a "fair" contract.... if the player says no or refuses to sign.... YOU TRADE THEM.... no ifs ands or buts.....it doesnt matter who this player is.

[DoNDaDDa]

I agree that winning trumps everything. But how do you start winning without good players? How do you get good players if your assets aren't desired in trades?

The draft really is the best option right now.

weve had assets that were & are desired, just not enough to get a super star without packaging like houston did for Harden..problem is we tend to over value our youth then build around guys who arent stars, then when it goes sideways we look to trade them when we cant get a bag of pretzels for them(Bargs) next will be Demar..

i just think that its better to make your own luck then to rely on the planets aligning for us to land a legit star through the lotto

[Nilanka]

I personally think this is a MYTH.. Look at the Blue Jays as an example from the early 90's and the raps from Vince Carter earlier days.....I firmly believe that "If you win - they will come." MOST players around the league have played here by now (as a visitor) and know that Toronto is an amazing city - one of the best in the world.

Unfortunately, our management sucks right now....our team sucks right now....Why would someone come here to waste their career playing with a losing team????

We cannot attract free agents BECAUSE our team sucks....plain and simple.

Vince Carter signed an extension, Bosh signed an extension, MO Pete signed an extension, Calderon, Demar, the list goes on.... Bosh and Carter wanted to leave because our team/management/coaching was subpar at that time

I will admit that we are ignored by the U.S. media but i think its purely because we suck. Does anyone else remember us being on primetime when Vince and the vets were here and when our team was actually winning??

Wasn't Bosh and Vince voted all-star starters while they were here??

I put this solely on management......build a winner and the players will beg to play here!

I agree that winning trumps everything. But how do you start winning without good players? How do you get good players if your assets aren't desired in trades?

The draft really is the best option right now.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

using the lakers as an example..during there 5 titles in kobes era how many guys on that team were drafted by them & how many were traded for...Kobe was drafted by charlotte hornets & traded to lakers.. Shaq was a free agent signing as were alot of others like Payton, Malone, they traded for Pau, traded for Odem, signed Artest, etc.. it can be done. i agree it will be more difficult in this market though but it Can be done.

First, although Kobe was not technically drafted by the Lakers, it was well known that he would play for only one team. He was traded immediately, with Charlotte just taking advantage of the situation to pickup additional assets.

Second, the quality of free agents being lured to the Lakers only speaks volumes to the inequality of the NBA, when it comes to free agency. Shaq wanted to become a star, both as a rapper and as a movie star, plus I'm sure he liked the idea of teaming up with another star in Kobe. Bottom line is that when it comes to free agency, the Lakers are in a class all by themselves (when they have money to actually sign a free agent, of course).

[mcHAPPY]

using the lakers as an example..during there 5 titles in kobes era how many guys on that team were drafted by them & how many were traded for...Kobe was drafted by charlotte hornets & traded to lakers.. Shaq was a free agent signing as were alot of others like Payton, Malone, they traded for Pau, traded for Odem, signed Artest, etc.. it can be done. i agree it will be more difficult in this market though but it Can be done.

I did think of that but maybe I am wrong but trading for a draft pick is the same as building through the draft in my books. that pick got the ball rolling for the lakers.

[special1]

If we win - they will come

But the Raptors being the Raptors, are in an unfair position when it comes to acquiring talent outside of the draft. Ignorant people see Toronto as some sort of 3rd world destination.

I personally think this is a MYTH.. Look at the Blue Jays as an example from the early 90's and the raps from Vince Carter earlier days.....I firmly believe that "If you win - they will come." MOST players around the league have played here by now (as a visitor) and know that Toronto is an amazing city - one of the best in the world.

Unfortunately, our management sucks right now....our team sucks right now....Why would someone come here to waste their career playing with a losing team????

We cannot attract free agents BECAUSE our team sucks....plain and simple.

Vince Carter signed an extension, Bosh signed an extension, MO Pete signed an extension, Calderon, Demar, the list goes on.... Bosh and Carter wanted to leave because our team/management/coaching was subpar at that time

I will admit that we are ignored by the U.S. media but i think its purely because we suck. Does anyone else remember us being on primetime when Vince and the vets were here and when our team was actually winning??

Wasn't Bosh and Vince voted all-star starters while they were here??

I put this solely on management......build a winner and the players will beg to play here!

[DoNDaDDa]

but the best teams all start with a piece obtained via the draft. the draft is the nudge that gets the ball rolling.

using the lakers as an example..during there 5 titles in kobes era how many guys on that team were drafted by them & how many were traded for...Kobe was drafted by charlotte hornets & traded to lakers.. Shaq was a free agent signing as were alot of others like Payton, Malone, they traded for Pau, traded for Odem, signed Artest, etc.. it can be done. i agree it will be more difficult in this market though but it Can be done.

[Nilanka]

no prob. with that plan. pick who evers the best avail. but im a firm believer in building a team by any means..weather that be free agency, trade , or draft.. i really hate limiting the vision to just the draft..the best teams do what ever it takes & rarely rely onthe draft alone

I agree on the "whatever it takes" approach to team building. But the Raptors being the Raptors, are in an unfair position when it comes to acquiring talent outside of the draft. Ignorant people see Toronto as some sort of 3rd world destination.

[mcHAPPY]

no prob. with that plan. pick who evers the best avail. but im a firm believer in building a team by any means..weather that be free agency, trade , or draft.. i really hate limiting the vision to just the draft..the best teams do what ever it takes & rarely rely onthe draft alone

but the best teams all start with a piece obtained via the draft. the draft is the nudge that gets the ball rolling.

[DoNDaDDa]

What if the plan isn't specifically about Wiggins, but about securing a top-3 pick in what's expected to be a loaded 2014 draft?

no prob. with that plan. pick who evers the best avail. but im a firm believer in building a team by any means..weather that be free agency, trade , or draft.. i really hate limiting the vision to just the draft..the best teams do what ever it takes & rarely rely onthe draft alone

[Nilanka]

u never lay all your eggs in one basket... i dont even want to get into all the reasons why this wiggans talk is wack..i wont even consider him a future star until ive seen him play at least one collage game..dudes still in high school & at this point his career can take soo many different paths...will he be a LBJ or maybe hes a Amir Johnson SF only thing i know for sure is the talent level at the high school level isnt good..a couple guys tend to stand out & the rest go on to flip burgers at wendys

What if the plan isn't specifically about Wiggins, but about securing a top-3 pick in what's expected to be a loaded 2014 draft?