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  • #31
    Seriously, J Smith is not a max player. I know there are always bound to be some guys who get it who don't deserve it. It's not like he's going to grow anymore as a player, and he's clearly not a #1 option, or an on-court leader (really that's Horford). What he brings is clearly valuable, but you can't build a team around him.

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    • #32
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      There have been a number of great players coming from small schools. Most recent coming to mind: Steph Curry.

      As for Porter, I agree. 2 guys I like in this draft outside of the top5 are Burke and Porter.
      That's not really a lot of guys, considering Curry was drafted what, 4 years ago? I'm not saying it never happens, but it's quite rare. The only other year I can think of recently with some other good players, are Hayward from Butler, and he's at least a solid rotation player, and George from Fresno state, and both those guys were in the same year and a year weak with wings.

      I looked around for fun, and yeah, major schools obviously dominate the lottery, if not the whole 1st round. Going further back from Steph Curry, I saw Jason Thomspon on Sacto was from Rider (div 1 but I don't know it at all)....Stuckey went to Eastern Washington. Basically Curry, George (though I woulnd't consider Fresno as unknown as Davidson or Butler) and Lillard are special. I admit that's not bad, but again, other than Curry who had a lot of competition his year, the other guys were pretty safe picks in their drafts.

      Also I had a hard time finding such players as I went further back. I feel like no more high school draftees makes a difference.

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      • #33
        Wolstat's tweets on the subject this afternoon have been interesting:

        Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun

        There is a split in organization between Lowry and Calderon. I find that insane based on many things
        The split is management and coaching. Casey is not a big fan of Lowry and management has been looking for a replacement for Calderon for years.


        Ryan Wolstat Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun

        My guess is either both move or just Calderon, but can't see just Lowry going, unless someone antes up for him
        Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun

        And you can call that an educated guess
        This is the first time I've seen the possibility of both being moved.... so much for the Lowry vs. Calderon debate of 2013. That would be crazy.

        There are more tweets from Wolstat. Interesting bits on Lowry's personality (asshole) and difficulty to deal with and his thoughts on the matter.

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        • #34
          Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
          Ughhh, if they trade Lowry, they better get one heck of a return
          How, his numbers are down since he lost his starting gig? If they ship him out, I'm done with this franchise. BC is such a joke.

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          • #35
            Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
            Ughhh, if they trade Lowry, they better get one heck of a return
            At least as much as they gave up to acquire him.
            Attitude Is A Choice.

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            • #36
              I also think people need to chill a bit. Whether Lowry, or Jose, or both get traded, what matters most is what we get back. I don't think a move will be made just to dump either one. I also think if we can't find a good deal for Jose when he's having maybe his best year ever, and also has an expiring contract, then BC is really completely incompetent.
              Same for Lowry, even with his lower production, he's still a very talented guy on an incredibly reasonable contract. While we may have given up a lottery pick, if we can't at least get a 1st rounder, even a low one, that's pretty sad.

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              • #37
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                Wolstat's tweets on the subject this afternoon have been interesting:



                The split is management and coaching. Casey is not a big fan of Lowry and management has been looking for a replacement for Calderon for years.






                This is the first time I've seen the possibility of both being moved.... so much for the Lowry vs. Calderon debate of 2013. That would be crazy.

                There are more tweets from Wolstat. Interesting bits on Lowry's personality (asshole) and difficulty to deal with and his thoughts on the matter.
                Lowry reminds of Kobe in terms of attitude. The difference being that Kobe is a proven winner and so his teammates respect, and sometimes just put up with, his "in your face" bulldog mentality. If you are losing, that bit gets old very quick. Unfortunately, for Ford, Lowry and Jack the guy behind them passes out gatorades at half time and rescues orphaned puppies at night, so losing with him is a lot more acceptable (from a teammate's perspective).

                ― John Wooden

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                • #38
                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  Wolstat's tweets on the subject this afternoon have been interesting:



                  The split is management and coaching. Casey is not a big fan of Lowry and management has been looking for a replacement for Calderon for years.






                  This is the first time I've seen the possibility of both being moved.... so much for the Lowry vs. Calderon debate of 2013. That would be crazy.

                  There are more tweets from Wolstat. Interesting bits on Lowry's personality (asshole) and difficulty to deal with and his thoughts on the matter.
                  I hope this doesn't come off as a shot at Lowry because I don't intend it to be. But, as I've stated many times in the past, he doesn't exactly have a glowing history. Between how things went in Houston last year and his assault charge after going overboard and throwing the ball at a female ref (in a meaningless game no less), he's not exactly a squeaky clean as a individual.

                  But this also goes back to something Colangelo has referred to numerous times in the past (and I can't recall the exact phrasing) about wanting players with the good mind set. Whether he's right or wrong it that regard, like many things Colangelo says, it got thrown out the window when something more convient comes along.

                  The one thing I like to see about management and coaching possibly being split on a player, is atleast Casey isn't folding (not saying he'll get his way in the end, but this doesn't feel like a Jay Triano situation). Makes me wonder if Colangelo's clout is trickling away....

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                  • #39
                    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                    That's not really a lot of guys, considering Curry was drafted what, 4 years ago? I'm not saying it never happens, but it's quite rare. The only other year I can think of recently with some other good players, are Hayward from Butler, and he's at least a solid rotation player, and George from Fresno state, and both those guys were in the same year and a year weak with wings.

                    I looked around for fun, and yeah, major schools obviously dominate the lottery, if not the whole 1st round. Going further back from Steph Curry, I saw Jason Thomspon on Sacto was from Rider (div 1 but I don't know it at all)....Stuckey went to Eastern Washington. Basically Curry, George (though I woulnd't consider Fresno as unknown as Davidson or Butler) and Lillard are special. I admit that's not bad, but again, other than Curry who had a lot of competition his year, the other guys were pretty safe picks in their drafts.

                    Also I had a hard time finding such players as I went further back. I feel like no more high school draftees makes a difference.
                    If you look at all the players, there have been many from small schools taken in the first round that have been, or,will be solid players.

                    2011 Burkes, Faried, Cole
                    2010 Hayward, George, Larry Sanders, Jordan Crawford
                    2009 harden,Curry, Eric Maynor
                    2008 Jason Thompson, MaGee, Courtney lee, George Hill

                    There are also many guys coming from non powerhouse schools in big conferences that have been selected as well.
                    Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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                    • #40
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      Wolstat's tweets on the subject this afternoon have been interesting:



                      The split is management and coaching. Casey is not a big fan of Lowry and management has been looking for a replacement for Calderon for years.






                      This is the first time I've seen the possibility of both being moved.... so much for the Lowry vs. Calderon debate of 2013. That would be crazy.

                      There are more tweets from Wolstat. Interesting bits on Lowry's personality (asshole) and difficulty to deal with and his thoughts on the matter.
                      u could tell lowry wasnt happy with somthing, he prob dont like comming off the bench..this is prob the same situation lowry had in houston with Mchale..injuries. sub par play upon return, loss of starters role, beefing with coach,= traded

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                      • #41
                        WJF wrote: View Post
                        If you look at all the players, there have been many from small schools taken in the first round that have been, or,will be solid players.

                        2011 Burkes, Faried, Cole
                        2010 Hayward, George, Larry Sanders, Jordan Crawford
                        2009 harden,Curry, Eric Maynor
                        2008 Jason Thompson, MaGee, Courtney lee, George Hill

                        There are also many guys coming from non powerhouse schools in big conferences that have been selected as well.
                        What about Lillard? Isn't Weber State a small school?

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                        • #42
                          I am willing to admit that we screwed up with the Lowry trade. I haven't seen anything in him that makes me feel this is a starting caliber point guard. Don't even think he is the best player on the team. Think he has a lot of talent, but so many players with talent out there.

                          Maybe I should say he is a poor point guard. He is not that good at his position. It looks disjointed, I don't know what to expect, when I want him to shoot he passes, when I want him to pass he shoots. Don't even understand how he got the reputation for being a good defender. I thought I would see a serious contrast between him and Jose, due to Jose's deficiencies at D, but Lowry has done little to impress me. It was his job to win, Jose is old and so far Lowry has been meh...


                          Kind of reminds me of Marcus Banks situation and Miami. He played well when he first got into the league, was known for his defense, got his contract, and then poof... was never the same player.


                          How much better can Lowry be? I think he is what he is. Also if he is the best player on our team, where is the lineup of GM's willing to take him off our hands?
                          Last edited by BasketballCrush; Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:06 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
                            Ughhh, if they trade Lowry, they better get one heck of a return
                            It would be a huge mistake to trade KL . I would argue that now is the best time ever to trade JC as his trade value is peaking and he is the past not the future of our franchise.

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                            • #44
                              BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
                              I am willing to admit that we screwed up with the Lowry trade. I haven't seen anything in him that makes me feel this is a starting caliber point guard. Don't even think he is the best player on the team. Think he has a lot of talent, but so many players with talent out there.

                              Maybe I should say he is a poor point guard. He is not that good at his position. It looks disjointed, I don't know what to expect, when I want him to shoot he passes, when I want him to pass he shoots. Don't even understand how he got the reputation for being a good defender. I thought I would see a serious contrast between him and Jose, due to Jose's deficiencies at D, but Lowry has done little to impress me. It was his job to win, Jose is old and so for Lowry has been meh...


                              Kind of reminds me of Marcus Banks situation and Miami. He played well when he first got into the league, was known for his defense, got his contract, and then poof... was never the same player.


                              How much better can Lowry be? I think he is what he is. Also if he is the best player on our team, where is the lineup of GM's willing to take him off our hands?
                              putting lowrys off court stuff aside.. in the right system with a SG or SF to run the offence through Lowry would be an ideal fit. he shoots well, rebounds well for his size.. he just CANT be the guy who runs an offence. he also needs to stop gambling on D.. a team with a point forward type player would be prime trade targets..unless of course WE can land a Point Forward Type player to run our show....

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                              • #45
                                Don't get me wrong, think he is a good player, and obviously in our top 5, but considering all the Hype from you guys about this guy, I am still scratching my head and trying to match the fascination with the results.


                                I also don't think its a good time to trade him, unless someone is willing to pay at least what we gave up. He is a very good rotation player. I just don't always feel comfortable giving him the keys to the Ferrrari.

                                EDIT: hope the chemistry stuff is unfounded rumour
                                Last edited by BasketballCrush; Sat Jan 26, 2013, 03:26 PM.

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