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Have we entered an alternate universe? Are the Raptors buyers?

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  • No thanks to Ilysova. A contract year wonder, who doesn't have much post-up game.

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    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      More trade deadline rumours. Source really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. HoopsWorld.com has been dreadful with their rumors and 'calls' of late:
      Some pretty random rumors. It is funny that they said Chicago called us, because I think I've even read some non-Toronto writers suggest Chicago made the first calls...

      Anyway, the only one I'd consider there is Ilyasova, but that's not to say I'd for sure pull the trigger. It would be hard not to if the option were there though. He'd bring much the same things as Bargs, but with better D and rebound (and worse scoring talent). i don't understand why the article mentioned the Gay trade affecting things...I never understood why people consider Ilyasova a SF...he's very very clearly a stretch 4 who has only been forced to play SF on the Bucks at times because of how their roster has been built the last few years. In terms of talent, and cost, I'm ok with him....it's just the length that's worrying...still, I would rather pay him less and longer, than go for a guy like Boozer.

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      • Nilanka wrote: View Post
        No thanks to Ilysova. A contract year wonder, who doesn't have much post-up game.
        But in the long term, JV is our post player. Any post player we acquire could only be a short term deal like Gortat or Gasol. Anything longer will just shift focus away from developing JV. What we need is a stretch 4, because that's likely what we're losing...just preferably one who rebounds, which Ilyasova does, at least better than Bargs.

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        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
          More trade deadline rumours. Source really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. HoopsWorld.com has been dreadful with their rumors and 'calls' of late:


          Funny how the Chicago Tribune pegged it as the Bulls calling Toronto. But whatever, it is HoopsWorld.com.


          Interesting that all the other 'sources' are claiming Millsap is the one leaving.


          Ilyasova actually signed a 5 year deal, but who cares about details.
          I've also seen conflicting reports about Utah. The majority of what I've read seems to indicate that Jefferson is more likely to stay, with Millsap being traded. In order for both teams involved to maximize their return, I expect Utah to keep Millsap this season and then look to S&T him.

          I still can't help but think that a DeRozan for Millsap S&T (meaning Millsap has voluntarily committed to Toronto) would be great for both teams. Utah is desperate for a wing upgrade and Millsap would be a great fit with Gay/Lowry/Valanciunas. Johnson would be a solid backup, forming a 3-headed big rotation with Millsap & JV. Fields (glue guy - defense, rebounding) & Ross (scoring) could fight for the starting SG spot (I like the balance that Fields brings to the improved starting lineup). Bargnani would then become even more expendable, with a backup PG and young wing player being the key needs to fill via trade.

          As for the Bargnani rumors...

          Boozer - no thanks

          Ilyasova - no thanks

          Gasol - I'm torn, but leaning towards no

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          • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
            But in the long term, JV is our post player. Any post player we acquire could only be a short term deal like Gortat or Gasol. Anything longer will just shift focus away from developing JV. What we need is a stretch 4, because that's likely what we're losing...just preferably one who rebounds, which Ilyasova does, at least better than Bargs.
            I'm not sure if Jonas will ever be the type of player who automatically attracts doubles in the post. Guys like Jefferson and Boozer do (I'm not saying I like Boozer's contract, but his offensive skillset is what I'd want in a PF....ideally).

            Ilyasova, as mentioned, seems more of a SF....who doesn't exactly fill a need.

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            • No thanks to all those names. Jefferson, Milsap, Smith are definitely guys I consider.

              No Boozer (old, long contract), no Gasol (same as Boozer), and no Ilyasova (tweener, no need for another SF) please and thank you.

              Give me a TRUE big that can play the power forward position.
              Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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              • I don't know, this all feels like it goes around in circles....Some days, some people want a true big who can play in the post and guard bigs...some days, it's a stretch 4 to replace Bargnani....

                I really think there is only one option that satisfies both, and that's Millsap. He can shoot and score in the paint, he's big enough to guard 4s (though too short for 5s) in terms of strength....

                Anybody else would lead to inevitable tradeoffs....I'm not sold on Boozer anymore. If we're going to get a guy who can't really guard 5s well, I would prefer a guy who can shoot, like Millsap or Ilyasova. I'm also not sure why we'd get Jefferson. I don't think I'm the only one who assumes there's a 0% chance of him re-signing. Then you get to a big like Gasol or Gortat, who would be great bigs for a year or so as JV grows into the game...but then we'd lack a stretch 4 badly. Basically if the team is forced to play small, Gay will have to play lots of minutes at PF....there's something to be said about having a big like Ilyasova, Bargs or Ryan Andersen these days...someone who can play or steal minutes during small ball because of their range and passable man D (man D, always just the man D).

                *also, just like Al, I'm not sure why Millsap would want to re-sign here, but I think it's a much higher chance than Jefferson. Millsap is going to be heavily pursued this summer, and I have no clue what'll be the deciding factor. It may be money, but I'm not sure what his going rate will be...$11? $12 million per year??? more?

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                • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  No thanks to Ilysova. A contract year wonder, who doesn't have much post-up game.
                  He started this year slow, just like last year. He is not playing quite as well as last season but he has not been far off his contract worth. He is shooting 53%, 51%, and 47% from three over the last 3 months and 6.6, 7.6, and 6.0rebs in that time as well which is close to on par with what ED was bringing.

                  I would be interested in him assuming he didn't cost more than Bargnani, AA, and/or a 2nd rd pick. His contract at $7.9M per year is not outrageous in my opinion.

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                  • With any of these pending UFAs, it would be a gamble to hope that you can use bird rights to resign them in the summer. That's a risk I might take, depending on the cost to us.

                    Let's say the Raptors trade for Millsap now, with the intention of signing him for $12 million in the offseason. A lot of that has to do with how few teams will be far enough under the cap to sign these guys. If the cap stays at $58 million, and the luxury tax stays at $70 million, and the apron stays at $74 million, the following teams are far enough under the cap to make a $12 million signing without a sign-and-trade:
                    Clippers (if they don't resign Paul)
                    Spurs (if they don't resign Ginobli)
                    Philadelphia (if they don't resign Bynum)
                    Cleveland
                    Detroit
                    Atlanta
                    Utah
                    Milwaukee
                    New Orleans
                    Sacramento
                    Charlotte
                    Houston

                    Of these teams, Utah, Detroit, and New Orleans are definitely not looking for a starting PF. Clippers and Spurs probably make internal signing that take themselves out of the running. That means Cleveland, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Charlotte, and Houston are the teams that might be in the market for his services. I'd say that Cleveland, Houston, and maybe Atlanta are the only ones that are arguably more desirable destinations than Toronto. Given that there's a whole host of free agent big men on the market, there's a reasonable chance that any of those teams go with other options.
                    If Millsap does not want to stay in Toronto, there are several more teams that could acquire Millsap using a sign-and-trade... places that couldn't sign Millsap under the cap, but could fit him within their apron such as Minnesota, Phoenix, Dallas, Indiana if they don't resign West, etc... infact anyone currently under the apron of $74 million, provided they're willing to send back matching salary. In a worst-case scenario where Millsap doesn't resign with us, there's a reasonable chance that we'd be able to get something back for him via a sign-and-trade.
                    So with all that in mind, I don't hate the idea of trading for one of these big UFAs now and taking our chances at retaining them over the summer.

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                    • octothorp wrote: View Post
                      With any of these pending UFAs, it would be a gamble to hope that you can use bird rights to resign them in the summer. That's a risk I might take, depending on the cost to us.

                      Let's say the Raptors trade for Millsap now, with the intention of signing him for $12 million in the offseason. A lot of that has to do with how few teams will be far enough under the cap to sign these guys. If the cap stays at $58 million, and the luxury tax stays at $70 million, and the apron stays at $74 million, the following teams are far enough under the cap to make a $12 million signing without a sign-and-trade:
                      Clippers (if they don't resign Paul)
                      Spurs (if they don't resign Ginobli)
                      Philadelphia (if they don't resign Bynum)
                      Cleveland
                      Detroit
                      Atlanta
                      Utah
                      Milwaukee
                      New Orleans
                      Sacramento
                      Charlotte
                      Houston

                      Of these teams, Utah, Detroit, and New Orleans are definitely not looking for a starting PF. Clippers and Spurs probably make internal signing that take themselves out of the running. That means Cleveland, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Charlotte, and Houston are the teams that might be in the market for his services. I'd say that Cleveland, Houston, and maybe Atlanta are the only ones that are arguably more desirable destinations than Toronto. Given that there's a whole host of free agent big men on the market, there's a reasonable chance that any of those teams go with other options.
                      If Millsap does not want to stay in Toronto, there are several more teams that could acquire Millsap using a sign-and-trade... places that couldn't sign Millsap under the cap, but could fit him within their apron such as Minnesota, Phoenix, Dallas, Indiana if they don't resign West, etc... infact anyone currently under the apron of $74 million, provided they're willing to send back matching salary. In a worst-case scenario where Millsap doesn't resign with us, there's a reasonable chance that we'd be able to get something back for him via a sign-and-trade.
                      So with all that in mind, I don't hate the idea of trading for one of these big UFAs now and taking our chances at retaining them over the summer.
                      That might be all well and good but I think the issue is with the bold. What does Toronto have that Utah would want that Toronto would give up? I don't think Bargnani, Anderson, and 2nd rd picks will do it.... but then again I never though tCalderon, Davis, and a 2nd pick would land Gay.

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                      • Very true, I haven't seen any two-way trade with Utah that makes sense for them (unless DeRozan is involved, and at that point the price is too much for the risk... better to wait for a sign-and-trade in the offseason). Other teams would need to be involved. The only way I see it as possible is if there are teams out there who actually want Bargs, and the Raptors can get pieces back in such a transaction that they could flip to Utah. And I still can't get my head around what the market for Bargnani might be.

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                        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          He started this year slow, just like last year. He is not playing quite as well as last season but he has not been far off his contract worth. He is shooting 53%, 51%, and 47% from three over the last 3 months and 6.6, 7.6, and 6.0rebs in that time as well which is close to on par with what ED was bringing.

                          I would be interested in him assuming he didn't cost more than Bargnani, AA, and/or a 2nd rd pick. His contract at $7.9M per year is not outrageous in my opinion.
                          Maybe I'm being too greedy with my expectations, but I'm hoping Colangelo can find a PF who is a legit offensive threat from the low blocks. I don't see Ilyasova fitting that description.

                          I would much rather stand pat and go hard after Millsap this summer (even if it involves amnestying Bargnani), than commit myself to 3+ years of Ilyasova.

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                          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                            Maybe I'm being too greedy with my expectations, but I'm hoping Colangelo can find a PF who is a legit offensive threat from the low blocks. I don't see Ilyasova fitting that description.

                            I would much rather stand pat and [B]go hard after Millsap this summer (even if it involves amnestying Bargnani)[/], than commit myself to 3+ years of Ilyasova.
                            The problem with that approach is that even after using amnesty of Bargnani, the Raptors' team salary would be over the cap, meaning they couldn't sign Millsap; they'd still have to S&T (likely costing them DeRozan).

                            That's why I'm torn. On one hand, I really like our 4 wings (Gay, DeRozan, Fields and Ross) and even like our 3 bigs (Valanciunas, Amir, Bargnani). On the other hand, I like the idea of trading DeRozan for Millsap (now or S&T in offseason), then using Bargnani to add a 4th wing and backup PG.

                            I think I'm leaning towards keeping both DeRozan and Bargnani throughout the season, then figuring them both out in the offseason. Of course, if a deal comes along that's too good to pass up, don't.

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                            • I'm on board with shipping Derozan for Millsap, as long as Millsap agrees beforehand to sign an extension

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                              • *sigh* I am no longer a Derozan homer..

                                <--------------------------------
                                Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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