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Have we entered an alternate universe? Are the Raptors buyers?

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  • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    *sigh* I am no longer a Derozan homer..

    <--------------------------------
    That's a big step, my friend. Welcome to the dark side

    Comment


    • In all seriousness, as I start my first post as a non-Derozan homer, I would definitely be willing to trade Derozan for Millsap, ONLY if we are sure that he would re-sign in the off-season. Like a poster said above:

      We can offer
      - Money
      - Starting position at the 4

      If Millsap walks, we'll be at trouble because not only did we not re-attain the player, we sent a talent away as well. Only positive to that is we'd have 8$ million in cap freeing up. I don't know how much cap space we would have if we have 8$ million coming off the books.
      Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

      Comment


      • Nilanka wrote: View Post
        That's a big step, my friend. Welcome to the dark side
        I am ashamed. BUT, I shouldn't be, because I'm a Rudy Gay homer.
        Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

        Comment


        • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
          In all seriousness, as I start my first post as a non-Derozan homer, I would definitely be willing to trade Derozan for Millsap, ONLY if we are sure that he would re-sign in the off-season. Like a poster said above:

          We can offer
          - Money
          - Starting position at the 4

          If Millsap walks, we'll be at trouble because not only did we not re-attain the player, we sent a talent away as well. Only positive to that is we'd have 8$ million in cap freeing up. I don't know how much cap space we would have if we have 8$ million coming off the books.
          That's just it, we'd still be over the cap if Millsap were to walk in that scenario. The only option the Raps would have would be to hope to work a S&T deal with Millsap, so they'd get something back for him (basically Toronto assumes Utah's position). That's why I think waiting for the offseason would be better, to try and use the Raptors good, young core (and a starting PF spot) as bait to lure Millsap, then work a S&T with Utah (give Utah DeRozan).

          However, the Raps would then be short a wing and still need an upgrade at backup PG, with only Bargnani and 2nd round picks as trade bait (plus they could have Kleiza, Gray and Lucas as expiring contracts, if all options are picked-up).

          Comment


          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
            Maybe I'm being too greedy with my expectations, but I'm hoping Colangelo can find a PF who is a legit offensive threat from the low blocks. I don't see Ilyasova fitting that description.

            I would much rather stand pat and go hard after Millsap this summer (even if it involves amnestying Bargnani), than commit myself to 3+ years of Ilyasova.
            Problem with that is that just amnestying Bargnani wouldn't be enough to sign Millsap. It would bring us down to about $55 million, and we'd have only $3 million of cap space, plus the 5$ MLE (which can't be combined). Not nearly enough to go after Millsap. We either need to get his bird rights now, or sign-and-trade for him in the offseason.

            Comment


            • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
              I am ashamed. BUT, I shouldn't be, because I'm a Rudy Gay homer.
              Don't be an anything homer. Cheer when it's warranted and critique when it's warranted. No player should be off limits.

              Comment


              • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                That's just it, we'd still be over the cap if Millsap were to walk in that scenario. The only option the Raps would have would be to hope to work a S&T deal with Millsap, so they'd get something back for him (basically Toronto assumes Utah's position). That's why I think waiting for the offseason would be better, to try and use the Raptors good, young core (and a starting PF spot) as bait to lure Millsap, then work a S&T with Utah (give Utah DeRozan).

                However, the Raps would then be short a wing and still need an upgrade at backup PG, with only Bargnani and 2nd round picks as trade bait (plus they could have Kleiza, Gray and Lucas as expiring contracts, if all options are picked-up).
                I expect Gray's and Lucas's options being picked up. Kleiza being amnestied. Someone (Bargnani, Anderson, Derozan, 2nd Round Picks) being traded from now, till the end of off-season.

                I would rather make a deal now in my opinion, know what you're going to deal with by the end of the season, and make your decisions based on your roster than. At this moment, nothing but rumours are coming up, and that's why I feel it's harder to elaborate on moves that need to be made in terms of addressing our roster issues. Bargnani is a question, Derozan is a core piece, but not untouchable, etc.
                Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                Comment


                • octothorp wrote: View Post
                  Problem with that is that just amnestying Bargnani wouldn't be enough to sign Millsap. It would bring us down to about $55 million, and we'd have only $3 million of cap space, plus the 5$ MLE (which can't be combined). Not nearly enough to go after Millsap. We either need to get his bird rights now, or sign-and-trade for him in the offseason.
                  If Bargnani is amnestied and the options on Haddadi & Lucas are declined, the Raps team salary would still be slightly over $60.6M next season, meaning they couldn't offer any contracts other than exceptions. That's assuming both Kleiza and Gray pickup their player options, which would only give the team 10 players under contract.

                  Here's a good link to the Raptors' team salary: http://www.hoopsworld.com/toronto-raptors-team-salary

                  Comment


                  • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    Don't be an anything homer. Cheer when it's warranted and critique when it's warranted. No player should be off limits.
                    Eh. I'm still 17 years old, I need a favourite player. lol.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                    Comment


                    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      He started this year slow, just like last year. He is not playing quite as well as last season but he has not been far off his contract worth. He is shooting 53%, 51%, and 47% from three over the last 3 months and 6.6, 7.6, and 6.0rebs in that time as well which is close to on par with what ED was bringing.

                      I would be interested in him assuming he didn't cost more than Bargnani, AA, and/or a 2nd rd pick. His contract at $7.9M per year is not outrageous in my opinion.
                      Thank you for some rationality. Ilyasova would basically be Bargs light, offensively, but actually a better spot up 3pt shooter. He brings better D and rebounding. 7.9 million is not crazy. I would rather have Ilyasova than a guy like Ryan Andersen as well, who brings strong scoring and rebounding, but is just awful defensively, and not very long...and makes about the same (slightly more??? I think 8 or 8.5mill??).

                      Nilanka wrote: View Post
                      Maybe I'm being too greedy with my expectations, but I'm hoping Colangelo can find a PF who is a legit offensive threat from the low blocks. I don't see Ilyasova fitting that description.

                      I would much rather stand pat and go hard after Millsap this summer (even if it involves amnestying Bargnani), than commit myself to 3+ years of Ilyasova.
                      I think you're a bit spoiled by the Gay trade. We gave up only one long-term prospect in Davis, who probably doesn't project to be as good a player as Gay, maybe if he maxes out all his potential, in the same level. Getting a trade for a player who fits what the team needs now just won't work with Utah clearly not giving up Jefferson (or Millsap) for Bargs, forgetting whether we'd have any chance/money(even with a Bargs amnesty) to sign them...add to that Gasol's injury, and I just don't see someone like Gortat being significantly better than Ilyasova. Different..but it's not like he would be a major threat in the low post, just a competent one.

                      I don't understand the Ilyasova is a SF talk...he's at least 6'10 out there, and long, and been forced to play SF in Milwaukee where they have way too many bigs and not enough wings. He has good energy, rebounds, plays solid D, is long enough to guard anyone not a true C, and gives the offensive skill set this team will probably need more than a low-post presence going forward. This also has to consider the fact that there are very few good low-post players in the league..Gasol(s), Cousins, Jefferson, R Lopez, Bynum, Randolph...the trend here is that these are pretty much all all-star level talents, and salaries, and would be very difficult to acquire. Josh Smith is not really a low-post threat. Millsap is solid, but he also plays a lot of face up game from the high post and perimeter. We probably can't afford any of these players in any way...not free agency, not through trades without gutting our team.

                      Gortat is a realistic option as a competent stopgap until JV develops. As is a guy like Pekovic...but then after next year, with JV and Amir still on the roster, the thing we'd need most to add would be a stretch PF who defends and rebounds....why not do that now?? The most sensible other option for trading Bargs I think, is to do what I just mentioned, maybe try and get Peko and Ridnour from Minny....but htey have no need for Bargs with Love there...that's a terrible fit for them. I would be ok going into next season with Amir sliding to C against smaller teams, and Gray still around for situational reasons, if we got a guy like Ilyasova to play 25-30 minutes a night. He would fit in well as a role player with this current core as it grows.

                      Comment


                      • I understand why people want Millsap, but we can't trade for him now because Utah doesn't want Bargs and Demar wouldn't be enough to get it done. he's not even making enough money for the salaries to balance. Even trading Demar would have to wait until after this season when his extension kicks in. But then, Millsap will also like a raise, so again, Demar will likely not be enough, and then we're talking about giving up extra assets that we can't afford. They probably wouldn't want Fields or Bargs. They might want Lowry but then we'd have no PG. Do you give up Ross? or JV? or Amir? Then you're just opening up more holes.....I just can't see a way to get Millsap that could work. We just don't have a piece or the combination of pieces that would either get it done, or we could afford to part with for someone who's never made an all-star game.

                        Comment


                        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          I understand why people want Millsap, but we can't trade for him now because Utah doesn't want Bargs and Demar wouldn't be enough to get it done. he's not even making enough money for the salaries to balance. Even trading Demar would have to wait until after this season when his extension kicks in. But then, Millsap will also like a raise, so again, Demar will likely not be enough, and then we're talking about giving up extra assets that we can't afford. They probably wouldn't want Fields or Bargs. They might want Lowry but then we'd have no PG. Do you give up Ross? or JV? or Amir? Then you're just opening up more holes.....I just can't see a way to get Millsap that could work. We just don't have a piece or the combination of pieces that would either get it done, or we could afford to part with for someone who's never made an all-star game.
                          If the Raptors wait until the offseason and get under the luxury tax level (amnesty Kleiza, let Haddadi & Pietrus walk), then standard trade rules apply. The Raps could trade DeRozan straight-up in a S&T, with Millsap signing a contract that starts at anything up to $11.975M for the 2013-14 season.

                          [(DeRozan's $9.5M salary * 1.25)+$100,000] = $11.975M


                          I'm warming up to the idea of keeping both DeRozan and Bargnani for the rest of this season, then making long-term decisions on both in the offseason.

                          Comment


                          • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                            If the Raptors wait until the offseason and get under the luxury tax level (amnesty Kleiza, let Haddadi & Pietrus walk), then standard trade rules apply. The Raps could trade DeRozan straight-up in a S&T, with Millsap signing a contract that starts at anything up to $11.975M for the 2013-14 season.

                            [(DeRozan's $9.5M salary * 1.25)+$100,000] = $11.975M


                            I'm warming up to the idea of keeping both DeRozan and Bargnani for the rest of this season, then making long-term decisions on both in the offseason.
                            So if he gets any offers more than $12 million, we'll have a hard time making it worth Utah's while, probably. If another team offers him more, there's no reason he wouldn't take it. I'm sure he'd ask Utah if they would do a sign and trade, but if the team can still sign him, and Utah doesn't want anythign they have, he could just walk. Utah still has no real power in that situation, so it's banking on Millsap not getting any good offers, and no other teams being able to offer a better package than Demar DeRozan.

                            *I defnitely want to keep Demar, and see no reason not to keep him going into next season....I want Bargs gone, but smartly, so if that has to wait til the summer, I'm fine with it. Two weeks ago I was worried because I had to convince people that it wasn't worth just dumping him and taking crap (eg. Tyrus Thomas) back. Now I'm convincing them it's worth taking Ilyasova, a cheaper, better defensive/boarding option, and debating the merits of acquiring vets like Boozer/Gasol...things are definitely looking up, all in all

                            Comment


                            • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                              So if he gets any offers more than $12 million, we'll have a hard time making it worth Utah's while, probably. If another team offers him more, there's no reason he wouldn't take it. I'm sure he'd ask Utah if they would do a sign and trade, but if the team can still sign him, and Utah doesn't want anythign they have, he could just walk. Utah still has no real power in that situation, so it's banking on Millsap not getting any good offers, and no other teams being able to offer a better package than Demar DeRozan.

                              *I defnitely want to keep Demar, and see no reason not to keep him going into next season....I want Bargs gone, but smartly, so if that has to wait til the summer, I'm fine with it. Two weeks ago I was worried because I had to convince people that it wasn't worth just dumping him and taking crap (eg. Tyrus Thomas) back. Now I'm convincing them it's worth taking Ilyasova, a cheaper, better defensive/boarding option, and debating the merits of acquiring vets like Boozer/Gasol...things are definitely looking up, all in all
                              The way I'm starting to see it, is that the future of DeRozan and Bargnani on the Raptors could be tied to each other. I don't see the Raps being able to acquire a legit starting PF for Bargnani (there are pros/cons to sideways deals like those for Gasol, Boozer or Ilyasova). Bargnani could be used to get a good backup PG and an extra wing, while DeRozan could be used to land a good PF; but either of those moves without the other creates a hole, which the other is meant to fill.

                              PRIMARY CORE (as close to untouchable as possible): Gay, Valanciunas, Ross, Lowry

                              SECONDARY CORE (good, but also big $ and best trade bait): DeRozan, Bargnani, Johnson, Fields

                              Needs: backup PG

                              Comment


                              • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                The way I'm starting to see it, is that the future of DeRozan and Bargnani on the Raptors could be tied to each other. I don't see the Raps being able to acquire a legit starting PF for Bargnani (there are pros/cons to sideways deals like those for Gasol, Boozer or Ilyasova). Bargnani could be used to get a good backup PG and an extra wing, while DeRozan could be used to land a good PF; but either of those moves without the other creates a hole, which the other is meant to fill.

                                PRIMARY CORE (as close to untouchable as possible): Gay, Valanciunas, Ross, Lowry

                                SECONDARY CORE (good, but also big $ and best trade bait): DeRozan, Bargnani, Johnson, Fields

                                Needs: backup PG
                                I don't think Gasol, Boozer, or Ilyasova is a sideways deal. The only one questionable in my opinion is Boozer but I would lean towards upgrade. Gasol and Ilyasova are winners in my opinion.

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